Rolling Stones - BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

So, I went out and picked up the UK versions of Aftermath and Between The Buttons today. In listening to Between The Buttons, something didn't quite sound right. The hiss in the intro of Yesterday's Papers just didn't sound right. Noise reduction? Nahh. No way.

Skip ahead to Miss Amanda Jones. Again, I thought "wait, this does NOT sound right". Since I had this on the sampler disc I decided to compare them. Sampler - hiss in the intro, front and center. Maybe not perfect, but pretty good and open sounding. Between The Buttons - very little hiss, plus noise reduction artifacts.

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD



Now, for some reason, there doesn't seem to be NR on every track. Back Street Girl seems to have a natural hiss sound to it. However, other tracks do have NR - All Sold Out seems to, for example.

Blargh.

I'll write more later, but I better go now, as I'm afraid I'll throw up on the keyboard.

BTW, Mother's Little Helper does not seem to be folded in at all (!). However, the bass is jacked up about 10 notches, and there's some bass sound in the right channel too. Filtering, or just increased bass?

More thoughts to come.

 

They used No-Noise on the actual CD but not the sampler?

Well, first of all, the way I understand it, one CAN'T use noise reduction with DSD. Different systems. That means----------PCM TO DSD?????

Transferred from analog to 16 bit or 24 bit digital and then "bumped up" to DSD?

SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Yet there is hiss on the sampler. Well it looks like the sampler is going to be the only actual authentic DSD/SACD mastering from analog that will exist for the Stones.

Quite stupid. Of course, these are not Audiophile masterings, just stuff for the masses. Noise reduction? After all this?

 

Hmmm...I wonder if the No-Noise-sounding tracks are the ones that our old buddy Astley did the tape transfers on.

Not that we shouldn't have expected trouble all along, but...damn it all to hell.

 

I forgot to add, the UK London CD of Aftermath is still king, IMHO. The SACD, yes, something is not right. That was one Stones CD I spent listening to, cocking my head sideways like a dog with a big "?" over my head.

 

Yes. At least on some songs.

Mind you, I haven't heard the SACD layer, but I can't imagine they'd use NR on the CD layer and not the SACD layer, especially since Sony almost *always* just downconverts the DSD master for the CD layer.

The only thing I can think of is *maybe* the US version doesn't have noise reduction. You think? Or am I grasping at straws?

 

Remember, the versions on the sampler disc do NOT have noise reduction. So clearly the transfers themselves were "pure".

I'll have to do some ProTools looking when I get a chance.

 

Just a thought, some engineers were used for certain tracks on the project, and Allen & Jody were the people to finalize which ones were used. I bet some discs were done by one engineer, but others are a "patch-quilt" source-wize. Most of the material is amazing, but again, some stuff I just don't get. I got the US version of buttons, as I didn't buy every SACD. The only title I didn't see was 12X5. The rest I saw at my local mom & pop.

 

The more I think about this the more incensed I get. The damn things aren't even available to the general public yet, and already Luke has identified at least one major problem.

(*sigh*) Between this letdown and the baseball strike that commences on Friday, it's going to be a very long week for me.

 

Too many mastering engineers spoil the broth if you ask me.

 

I don't know whether to be psyched or scared at this point?? I think i'm still psyched.....but also a little scared. Oh well, guess I'll be putting my goggles on and diving in head first tomorrow

 

Any words on the sound of the later 60s CDs or the compilation discs?

 

Why does everyone assume that just because LukePac hates something or hears something that his word is bible-truth? Maybe his equipment is faulty? Maybe he's imagining some differences between the sampler and the finished product?

It amazes me that people who haven't even LISTENED to the product are "psyched or scared" and "incensed"! Just because "John Astley may have had some part in the mastering process", you automatically say that the product is garbage??? Don't be sheep! Buy a few of the SACDs, listen to them, and then decide for yourselves!!!!! You've spent thousands on your high-end equipment, you can certainly afford to gamble $50 or so on a few of the remasters!

Some folks really like the new SACD's as evidenced by comments in the other thread by folks who have actually LISTENED to the new SACD's.

 

Good point, Fienstein. I don't know what Luke hears aside from what he is warning us about. I'm just going to buy a couple of remasters myself in the morning. I'm sure I will get a kick out of them. Right now, i'm wondering if I should hang on to some of my current ABKO CDs just in case. Someone somewhere said the the stereo "Satisfaction" sounded like the 45.

I guess I will have to be the first to get the Singles Collection, since it appears that no one here has.

The best thing about the dual layer is that after hearing these, I STILL have something to look forward to when I get an SACD player.

 

Hey Grant, Mr. "I Got Hot Rocks" yesterday here - Satisfaction is pretty much mono - the acoustic guitar and piano are barely audible with headphones, and it has deeep bass, so it's much more like the mono mix than the German London mix... As for the sound, get Hot Rocks - I listened to it a few times and I enjoyed it - there's hiss and noise and even some mono!

 

I've lived with Aftermath, Buttons, Banquet, Let it Bleed and Hot Rocks since Saturday afternoon. I've played them and studied them, compared them against my 60s vinyl and German CDs. Then, I relaxed, sat back, read a book and enjoyed them. They do, in fact, sound great.
Sometimes, I get the clear impression that we often bitch about things that we've never seen on this board, to quote a couple of great men. Are there things I would change? You bet- I would have liked some of the tracks in stereo where I know good mixes exist. I would have wanted 70-75 minute discs that combine the US and British versions with contemporaneous singles and maybe even outtakes. Didn't get them all. That's life. But these are a quantum leap over what we had.
Before you all grab for torches and join the other villagers to storm the mansion, relax and listen to them FOR YOURSELVES. If you're nervous, spring for only one.

 

I'll tell you what is bad bad bad bad bad...in the UK these discs are still VAPOURWARE

At least you guys in the US are able to LISTEN to them. We haven't got them and nobody knows when we're getting them either.

What are ABKCO playing at?

 

Beggars Banquet Good, Good, Good

I listened to the SACD layer of BB last night and I can say that it is 100% faithful to the original Decca pressing. Nothing more and nothing less! It did not seem to use any noise processing nor was the transfer done hot.

Hot Rocks was another matter, I've only played the first disc but there was something going on sonically. It definitely had the levels pushed up and some of the stereo tracks used the "narrow" versions. IMO it seemed very HiFi sounding but still much better than the original US ABKCO version.

I for one love the packaging especially Satanic's foil background that gives it a 3D effect. They really tried to right the wrongs of the past this time.
One one has yet mentioned the that the certificate enclosed with each CD will form a puzzle. So far I was only able to get 8 of the titles last night. My local mom and pop store did me a favor and order then for me at cost so I got them for $12.50 each for the singles. I'm a happy man.

 

I really hope for the reissues to be the best as that may bring down the price of the MFSL box.

 

If I do say so myself, that comment is out of line.

Not everyone likes the same things, but I know tape hiss when I hear it (or don't hear it, as the case may be). The differences between the sampler and BTB versions of Miss Amanda Jones are quite clear. This was something that jumped out at me as I was listening to BTB, and which was easily confirmed when I did an A/B of the track.

Mind you, nowhere did I suggest they used noise reduction on everything. In fact, I said that I thought some tracks *didn't* have noise reduction on BTB.

I'll have more later once I get a chance to listen to more or these.

 

I will tell you what suck the life out of music as much as noise reduction is the over analysis of music quality, my yardstick for if I got a good remaster is simple, if it sounds better than the previous issue then I am happy. People need to judge the Stone remasters for themselves and not let the negative comments deter them

 

I too can live with a little noise reduction. You take what you can get. It's when these engineers try to obliterate every last bit of it that I get ear pain with that noise gate swishing crap. I'd prefer they used none obviously, but this is a modern remaster folks. Did you really, truly expect they wouldn't futz with the tracks at all? I think we all know better here.

It's compression that drives me absolutely nuts, and clipping. Has anyone ripped a wav from the redbook layer to see what's going on there??

 

Yes, I did. At least in terms of NR.

The majority of engineers these days don't use NR any more. I've never known Bob Ludwig (the person doing the actual mastering) to use it before. The sampler CD didn't have NR. Why would we have ANY reason to believe the released CDs would have it?

You say you don't like "that noise gate swishing crap", but that's pretty much what we have here.

 

That's the problem - this DOESN'T sound better than previous issues.

I wasn't going in to these thinking "I need to find some way to rip them apart". Quite the contrary. I was, for the most part, pretty happy with the sound on the sampler disc. I was expecting more of the same. When I heard some of those BTB tracks, I became both angry and sad.

In a forum that is pretty much built around sound quality, I think it is a bit silly to dismiss glaring sound quality issues...

 

I think that this is probably the case. But don't you think that your subject line is a little rash and harsh at this point in the game?