DCC Archive Rolling Stones CDs

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jkerr, Sep 17, 2001.

  1. jkerr

    jkerr Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    In the old forum I've read lots of great info. With regards to the Stones cds, I've been looking for the London titles on ebay but they are going for way too much! I remember someone had mentioned that there's a few abkco titles that are same as the London.

    Also, anyone who has the London discs interested in some cdr trades? I've got a ton of unreleased Beatles and a number of live Pink Floyd & others. Send me an email if interested, thanks - jkerr@fujifilmesys.com
     
  2. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    I have all the London CDs with the exception of "Got Live If you Want It", didn't we do a trade before? Anyways, I'm not doing trades right now, but if you can provide CDRs, postage and $2. each for the art, if you want it, I don't mind duping them. Maybe I can do some 2-on-1's? That would bring things to about cost. I can use my own stock CDRs if you just want to send reimbursement.

    Let me know if you wanna. I'm thiking $6/ea with art, and about $2.50 for bare Cds, no art or jewels, just sleeves? That should be fair, and cover costs for me.

    Yes a lot of the titles ARE mirrors of the Abkco's like Beggars, Let It Bleed to some extent but Aftermath and Decembers Children... some examples of some big differences... Let me know what you're looking for. sckott@hotmail.com

    You don't know what I paid for most of em. I went though eBay for most every one! Aaaah!
    :eek:
     
  3. jkerr

    jkerr Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Thanks a million sckott! I just emailed ya...
     
  4. mikenyc

    mikenyc New Member

    Location:
    NYC Metro Area
    What happened to the recently rumored opening of the Stones archives...including a 4CD BBC box set, and expanded and remastered, early Decca albums with bonus tracks, etc. ?

    For me, those Stones bootleg digipaks, of the expanded, UK/EC albums do just well until everyone gets the idea they have a hot reissue/remaster property !!!

    It's about time...and I don't care if Jagger supposedly doesn't like outtakes or alternate versions, officially released !

    It's all about making money, isn't it ?
     
  5. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Yeah, but with the Stones 60's catalog - it's a matter of WHO makes the money. The Stones gave up their rights to the Decca/London material to Allen Klien as the result of a lawsuit in the 70's. I can't say for certain - but it APPEARS that any change in the catalog (which surely includes bonus tracks, and may even include re-mastering), allows Mick and the boys to renegotiate with Klien. Consequently - the catalog is "frozen". Klien is NOTORIOUS for not renegotiating royalty rates (just look at the Cameo-Parkway material). It is also unclear as to exactly what tapes Klien has - surely the Stones are not going to hand over anything in their possesion.
     
  6. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    I would like to say for the record, that I don't think waiting for something to happen in Abkco is a good idea. Grab the London CDs or dubs of them if you can.

    We've talked about this before. We all went off on a 2-month rant on how we even wondered if waiting for Klein to drop dead would do anything. I'm afraid it's all about collecting and spending money to get some "Satisfaction".
     
  7. Ben

    Ben New Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I have the London issues of "Hot Rocks" 1 and 2. Incredible sound...especially when compared to the tinny Abkco CD's...

    Wide stereo, deep bass, very warm and full sound.

    Well worth the $$$...and they're collectible too.

    Best,

    Ben
    :cool:
     
  8. Ben, I'm glad you're finally getting to hear what I've been enjoying for the past 16 years! As I mentioned before, these pressings were originally mastered by Mobile Fidelity in the mid 1980's when CD mastering was still in its infancy. They're still miles ahead of the current ABCKO reissues, excepting the titles they chose to simply keep using the Mobile Fidelity digital masters. I felt so sorry for Stones fans who bought the ABCKO "Hot Rocks" pressings expecting an improvement, because I knew they were getting shafted. But, again, I'm glad you're finally hearing these Stones classics in their best available masterings on CD :D
     
  9. Ben

    Ben New Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I heard that these CD's were created using the mastering tapes from The Rolling Stones Box MFSL LP's....do you know anything further about that?

    Best,

    Ben

    :cool:
     
  10. Mark H

    Mark H Well-Known Member

    Location:
    upstate N.Y.
    I have the abkco Hot Rocks + More Hot Rocks CDs,both released around 1985 or so. Are these the ones re-mastered by Mo-Fi? One set was made in Japan, the other is from West Germany I think. There is nothing on the label regarding who did the re-master.
     
  11. The best way to recognize the good London Hot Rocks/More Hot Rocks CD's, is this: Both in Germany (Europe) and Japan, the albums were originally released in the mid 80's as separate volumes on the London label, thus you have HR and MHR volumes 1 and 2 (in four separate discs). Be aware there are two different German pressings of the HR 1 disc,
    the first has minimal packaging but complete versions of all the songs, the second pressing (and relatively common one) have a booklet, but with many faded out songs.
    (I believe all the Japanese versions of the separate volumes have complete versions but I'm not sure. They were issued at least twice with different catalog numbers and "obi" strips).
    The bad HR/MHR discs are double disc packages on the ABCKO Label and have the "digitally remastered" banner across the bottom of the cover, same as the stock U.S. versions, and presumably derived from these.
     
    wangch32 likes this.
  12. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    Wow, what Sergio said about Hot Rocks 1 on German London in the previous message is big news to me (complete versions of all of the songs on the first German version, but an early fade out of many songs on the second German version) - I never heard that before.

    I own the second German version, which I thought was better than the first German version. Here is my understanding of the differences between the 2 versions: the first version has a "Digitally Remastered" banner across the top left side of the front insert, has a 2 or 4 page booklet, and says on the back insert that it has 6 songs in stereo and 6 songs in mono. The second version has no "Digitally Remastered" banner, has a 12 page booklet, and says on the back insert that it has 10 stereo songs and 2 mono songs.

    A few points: I was told that that the first version actually has 10 stereo songs and 2 mono songs, not 6 and 6. Is that true?

    I've read on this board that the stereo version of "Satisfaction" doesn't sound that good - that it is a different mix of the song which has louder acoustic guitar and lower electric guitar - and that the mono version of this song sounds better. Which version of "Satisfaction" is on each of the 2 versions of Hot Rocks 1 on London?

    Also, I've read that the mono version of "Get Off Of My Cloud" sounds better than the stereo version. Which version is on each of the 2 versions of Hot Rocks 1 on London?

    Finally and most importantly, what Sergio says in the prior post is the first I've ever heard of this, and would be a big difference if it's true; is it true that the first German version of Hot Rocks 1 on London has complete versions of all of the songs, whereas the second version has an early fade out of many of the songs? Why would the second version be worse than the first version?

    So, if anyone can answer some or all of my questions, I'd really appreciate it (Luke, Sckott, or anyone else). Thanks.
     
  13. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Fades - I believe the original German CD is fine, while the second version has fade-UPS on certain songs, including Satisfaction. I've got a few notes about this on my web site (under the "albums" section I believe). The Japanese pressing I have doesn't have any fade ups. More Hot Rocks 2 does, though (on Sittin on A Fence).

    Satisfaction and Get Off Of My Cloud are both in stereo on all the London Hot Rocks CDs. The acoustic guitar and piano in Satisfaction and Brian's guitar in GOOMC are a lot higher in the stereo mixes, which throws off the balance a bit. My solution - do a home mix by moving the left channel in slightly - it doesn't need to be a lot. Then lower the volume of the right channel till the vocal re-centers itself. That way you've got the overall balance of the mono, in stereo, and the backing track isn't hanging off in space to the left.

    BTW, here's a direct link to the Stones portion of my website:
    http://lukpac.org/stereostones/

    [ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: Luke Pacholski ]
     
  14. Bill S

    Bill S Well-Known Member

    Ruby Tuesday actually fades "out" on the second version of Hot Rocks I - very strange.
     
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It would seem that Polygram was using a strange mastering system at the time - several tracks on the London CDs fade up, as do several tracks on the original Polydor Who's Next. It seems to me I've heard other German Polygram CDs that fade up as well, although I can't think of them right now...
     
  16. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
  17. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Wrong Cd. There's also another set from Australia on Polydoor that also is the Abkco abortion. Luckilly, just from sight, you can tell which ones to keep away from.
     
  18. Bill S

    Bill S Well-Known Member

    Hello pig,

    Avoid that eBay item like the plague! The 1986 digitally remastered Abkco CDs are the crappy ones. Though it may say London somewhere on the label, this is an Abkco product - the good ones are the Hot Rocks 1 and 2 that were issued as separate CDs in Germany in 1985. See this eBay item for an example:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1468701711

    However, this looks like the later pressing with the fade ups and fade out - so it's best to try and find HR1 with the red Digitally Remastered banner in the upper left corner.
     
  19. Ben

    Ben New Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Fade ups...fade downs...

    Man - I just paid over $100 on eBay to snag these two CD's!

    And, yes, they're not the banner sniped "Digital Remasters."

    I just played them again and the fades are there...but, now I can't remember if some of them weren't there the first time I heard these songs...(sigh)

    Why would MFSL have taken this tack...?

    I'll be #$@*&^%$# if I'm gonna buy them AGAIN because of this development!

    Best to the Board,

    Ben :mad:
     
  20. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    I'm brand new to this forum, but I'd love more info on this. I have the Abkco releases of Let it Bleed, Beggar's Banquet, and Get Yer ya Ya's Out. All three sound terrible (much worse than vinyl). Are the London versions any better? If they are, here can I get them?
     
  21. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    No, the Londons of all the different pressings aren't any better of THOSE titles. I've compared them digitally and by ear. Sorry bud. Collect them only because you're cocky, not for sonic splendor. I've tried all the versions except a Japanese "Let It Bleed" but I'm sure that's not any different either. Yes, the mastering for those Cds mirror the US versions. I also disagree with the comment on the vinyl. I own a Japanese LP Decca/London "Let It Bleed" made in 1976, and it sounds the same as the lot of Cds I've tried too, masteringwize. BUT I enjoy playing it more ;)

    Here's the CDs I found had even minor differences. I should point out, Aftermath is a vital purchase. You won't go to heaven unless you own a CD copy of the German Pink-cover of Aftermath.

    - Hot Rocks 1 & 2 (Seperate Cds)
    - More Hot Rocks 1 & 2 (seperate CDs)
    - Aftermath!!
    - December's Children
    - Rolling Stones No. 2 (Japan London, rare as hell)

    Or... you can live with the USA CD, Abkco "Now!" as that CD also has "Down Road Apiece", "What A Shame" as No.2 does, but "I Can't Be Satisfied" is pretty much only on No.2. Now! might take care of having to buy No.2, which would be a rape-purchase on eBay if you would buy it at all. You just won't have "Can't Be Satisfied" in stereo.

    There are slightly noticeable fade in/outs on No.2 (Japan)

    I've just "remastered" Hot Rocks 1 & 2 declicked a couple of tracks (Ruby Tuesday), and used better sources on a lot of tracks. The Westwood One CDs released in a short run in the mid 90's had better "Honkey Tonk Women", "Get Off My Cloud" and "Play With Fire" to name a few. I need to track down a copy of that 19th nervous breakdown in Mono that doesn't have that obnoxios tape stretch in it, that's evident on every legally released Stones CD. I used to have the good one.

    Oh, and Luke's 110% correct - "Walk On Water", "Simply Stereo" and other Stones stereo boots that supposedly feature the Stereo stones are to be avoided at any cost. Not even worth a CDR, even a cheap one. Christ, what a waste of time to track those down.
     
    telepicker97 likes this.
  22. mikenyc

    mikenyc New Member

    Location:
    NYC Metro Area
    Sckott,

    I don't think you would say the bootleg puttdown about four "new" compilations by "Porky Productions" !

    They are titled..."Laid In The Shade Vol.2"..
    2CDs of outtakes different versions, from
    "Out of Time" to "Out of Control"; "Closet
    Classics"...1CD of early, unreleased songs from "Reelin' & Rockin'" to "Honest Man";
    "Stereofonic Stones"...2CDs of songs
    from Down The Road Apiece" to "Jiving Sister Fanny"; "Blessed Poison"...a 2CD set of the best of the Bridges From Babylon tour live selections...all excellent quality !

    It's infamous in the alt.net circuit for it's high quality, great real stereo separation...and great track selections !

    Try to latch on to a copy, if you haven't already !
     
  23. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    Get the London Buttons!!!!!!!!!
     
  24. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Well, not true. I Can't Be Satisfied is on MHR 2, in stereo...

    Why not just use the stereo 19th Nervous? Fidelity is a lot better than the mono... It seems to me my old HR vinyl has the problem in 19th - I *know* it has the problem in the intro (which the stereo doesn't have either).

    The "mix" of GOOMC that I've heard on WW1 is just the common stereo mix tinkered with a bit - rhythm track brought in to center a bit. I'd rather do a mix like that myself.

    I've got a version of Honky Tonk Women that some have said is better than the HR2 version, but I still don't have a London HR2 to compare with, so...
     
  25. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Sheesh. I thought the Stereo 19th was poor. Yep, I stand corrected. The Stereo 19th is actually damn good! I know I have "I Can't Be Satisfied" in stereo on No2, but see, that's why I didn't whip out the MHR to check.

    I know why I didn't like "Strictly Stereo". A lot of those tracks had been patched with NR. Not all of them, but enough to make me put it down. Thanks for the tip, Luke! I can basically make the near perfect Hot Rocks 1!

    Yes the source on the WestWood One CD for "Honkey Tonk Women" is better. The one on HR2 is very good though. It's a small upgrade difference.

    Well... then there's "Have You Seen Your Mother" on that Strictly Stereo Cd. That's a laugh and a half. Talk about wacky!!

    [ September 27, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]
     

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