First off, I've been making a bunch of updates to my page: The Rolling Stones In Stereo » New sound clips, links to Discogs entries for specific pressings, general updates, and a reduction in editorial content. Take a look and let me know if there are any glaring errors or omissions. It's worth noting that when I first put that page together, most of those stereo mixes were pretty hard to come by in the US. Today, however, most (but not all) are quite common. Second, there have been some discoveries and revelations about the RCA stereo mixes. Other than the Aftermath and Flowers LPs, the only songs from the RCA sessions that were released in stereo on vinyl were Heart of Stone and Everybody Needs Somebody To Love, both circa 1971 (the former on the remastered UK Big Hits LP and the latter on the Street Fighting Man maxi single). And other than those two, only three additional songs were later released in true stereo: Play With Fire, Satisfaction, and Get Off Of My Cloud, all on the London Hot Rocks 1 CD (Get Off Of My Cloud was also issued on the MFSL Hot Rocks LP, as well as on the European London December's Children CD). But as early as 1980 there was discussion about tapes that contained 9 songs, including stereo mixes of The Last Time, 19th Nervous Breakdown, and Have You Seen Your Mother: Chat Board Archives: November, 1997 » The rumor was that there were 2 reels that ABKCO threw out in the early '70s and that somebody was able to make copies of them, although it was never clear what happened to the original reels. A few CD bootlegs contained these 9 songs, but the quality was abysmal. As early as 1991 fairly high quality transfers of The Last Time and 19th Nervous Breakdown circulated privately, and in the past few years most of the material has finally shown up on bootlegs in near master tape quality. It has never been entirely clear exactly when/where these mixes were made, or how they found their way to the public. However, one of the newer boots actually has photos of the two tape boxes: Reel #2 STEREO MASTERS 3-19-66 NANKER-PHELGE, LTD. Rolling Stones 1. "Going Home" 2. "19th Nervous Breakdown" 3. "The Last Time" 4. "Get off My Cloud" 5. "Satisfaction" 6. "Heart of Stone" STEREO MASTERS 10-18-66 The Rolling Stones D.H. 1. "Have You Seen Your Mother Baby (Standing In The Shadow)" 2. "Paint It Black" 3. "19th Nervous Breakdown" While a studio isn't explicitly stated on either box, it would appear both were done at RCA in Hollywood, based on the use of RCA Red Seal tape for the March reel and "D.H." listed as engineer (Dave Hassinger) for the October reel. It isn't clear which reel has which version of 19th Nervous Breakdown, but one clearly has the master version and the other has the alternate version. What's particularly interesting is that the mixes of 4 of the 5 songs officially released in stereo (Heart of Stone, Satisfaction, Get Off Of My Cloud, and Paint It Black) are alternate mixes (Goin' Home probably is too, although I haven't heard a high quality version to confirm): Heart of Stone: Reverb on lead vocal, more extreme stereo separation, 7 second longer fade. Satisfaction: Less reverb, slightly better balance, 3 second longer fade. Get Off Of My Cloud: Less reverb, better balance. Paint It Black: One of the tracks is faded up late after the intro. I find the mixes of Satisfaction and Cloud especially fascinating: while superficially similar to the mixes released on Hot Rocks 1, these are better balanced and sound more like the mono mixes. That isn't to say they sound exactly like the mono mixes but in stereo, but they are better balanced. It's not clear why these mixes were made and (apparently) subsequently trashed. Why make a stereo mix of Paint It Black months after it has already been released on the US Aftermath LP? Why include Goin' Home along with a bunch of hits? Was there a Reel #1 from March? It was previously unclear why Hot Rocks 1 contained a stereo mix of Play With Fire (not present on those reels) and why it didn't contain the stereo mix of 19th Nervous Breakdown, but the fact that Satisfaction and Cloud are both different mixes seems to point to two different sets of stereo mixes. Of course, that begs additional questions. Did MFSL have access (via ABKCO) to additional stereo mixes that simply weren't used because those songs were not released on Hot Rocks? When and where were the Hot Rocks 1 mixes made? Do other stereo mixes exist that haven't seen the light of day? Sound clips for most of this stuff on the page. And if you're not into stereo and/or don't like these stereo mixes, this isn't the thread for you.
I heard some of those stereo mixes the first time on the 80s on the radio program, Solid Gold Saturday Night" (good thing I taped many of those shows). Dick Bartley was doing a Rolling Stones spotlight. It was FM stereo, but I was amazed to hear Satisfaction and Get Off My Cloud in stereo for the first time! This eventually led me to track down Hot Rocks 1 and Hot Rocks 2.
I know Dick Bartley had good sources for The Last Time and 19th Nervous Breakdown, but I'm not aware of others. Presumably he played the Hot Rocks 1 mixes of Satisfaction and Get Off Of My Cloud, rather than the alternate mixes noted above.
Luke, thanks for starting this thread. Always educational and enlightening. Nothing to contribute really, but ready to learn
Maybe they were meant for the UK High Tides and Green Grass compilation November 1966. UK track listing All songs by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, except where noted. Side one "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing in the Shadow?" – 2:34 "Paint It Black" – 3:45 "It's All Over Now" (B. Womack/S. J. Womack) – 3:27 "The Last Time" – 3:40 "Heart of Stone" – 2:46 "Not Fade Away" (Petty/Hardin) – 1:48 "Come On" (Chuck Berry) – 1:49 Side two "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" – 3:43 "Get Off of My Cloud" – 2:55 "As Tears Go By" (Jagger/Richard/Oldham) – 2:45 "19th Nervous Breakdown" – 3:57 "Lady Jane" – 3:08 "Time Is on My Side" (Meade) – 2:53 "Little Red Rooster" (Willie Dixon) – 3:05
First impressions going by the latter date - maybe these were done for the UK Big Hits, which was released in November 1966 and so included 'Paint It Black'? That song had already mixed for stereo, but maybe it was easier just to do another one? I'm not sure how 'Goin' Home' would fit into all that though... is there anything radically different about that alternate mix, BTW? The first reel is extremely near to the release date of the US Big Hits, though maybe it's still possible those mixes were intended for that? EDIT: Beaten to it above...
Yeah, Big Hits would be the logical explanation, but besides the fact that none of the mixes were actually used, the presence of Goin' Home and the alternate 19th throws a wrench into the equation. As far as Goin' Home goes, I don't think I have a high quality transfer of what's on that tape. Assuming the bootleggers actually had access to the original reels, it's slightly maddening that they weren't reproduced in their entirety. For a minute I thought maybe the alternate 19th was just due to pulling the wrong tape, and Goin' Home was a This Boy/Bad Boy mix-up, but I don't see anything on either version of Big Hits that would mistakenly cause Goin' Home to get pulled.
Me too... But yeah, 'Goin' Home' and the alternate vocal '19th NB' are a bit confusing (wouldn't the alternate vocal eventually be erased by the master vocal?). Could the March mix of 'Goin' Home' have just been an attempt at a better mix for use on 'Aftermath' (I haven't heard it)? The date is a bit too close to the release of the US Big Hits (9 days!) for the other tracks to be intended for use on that, but maybe they were thinking ahead to a stereo reissue of that album at some later date (or just belatedly playing catch-up with doing stereo mixes)? The October tape just seems to be stereo mixes of the 1966 UK A-sides, so I'd guess that they were done primarily for the UK Big Hits. But again, why were they never used either?
Another thought... We're they going to use these mixes to add crowd/audience background for the Got Live if You Want It Lp?
Well, the March mixes would be too early for that, and the October mixes appear to be strictly stereo mixes of the 1966 non-LP singles to me. But on a related note that I've been thinking about lately - were the two studio tracks on 'Got Live...' leftovers from the 'December's Children' hodgepodge?
Do we know if its the full-length version? I wouldn't be surprised if the US label had balked at an 11-minute track and prepared an edit for the US LP.
As far as I know, until 1966 the RCA recordings were 3-track and didn't utilize sel-sync, so any overdubs were tape to tape, meaning multiple overdub attempts could be retained. Much like the first 2 Beatles albums. It also meant a song like The Last Time was probably at least 4th generation. My recollection is Goin' Home is full length.
One thing that struck me about this reel is that the client is listed as 'Nanker Phelge LTD'. Wasn't that strictly the UK arm of Nanker Phelge? (Was the US arm 'Nanker Phelge INC' or 'NP USA' or something?).
^^^ Actually, forget that - from here (a 1971 article): The Rolling Stones Sue Allen Klein » "The transactions apparently now complained of by the Stones date back to 1965 and 1966, and such transactions, including ownership of American Nanker Phelge Music, Ltd., and Gideon Music, Inc., were fully disclosed to them at the relevant times and also to their independent advisors, whom the Stones have frequently changed..."
@lukpac: Thank you for this, and all the fascinating information you have been sharing throughout the years. It's really incredible. I really believe that you ought to write a book!!
I haven't researched this, but I did find this: "In the United States, those rights were leased to Decca's American subsidiary, London Records. When Klein came into the picture, he created an American company, Nanker Phelge Music, to house those rights, which were then leased by Nanker Phelge to London Records for the term of the contract. The American company was supposed to allow the Stones to repatriate their U.S. income without paying the ruinous British taxes on foreign income by taking it out through a similarly named extant British company, Nanker Phelge Ltd. - although that company had a completely different function and nothing to do with master recordings." Allen Klein » All the Impact Sound/Nanker Phelge/ABKCO stuff makes my head spin. Regardless of the specifics, it seems like Nanker Phelge Ltd (or was that actually Nanker Phelge Music Ltd?) was the entity getting the bill for the sessions at RCA. Back to the stereo mixes, has anyone compared the mixes of Satisfaction and Get Off Of My Cloud? Until recently I had never paid much attention to the versions on bootleg because they were lower quality and I assumed they must be the same mixes that were on Hot Rocks 1.
Here's a very good summary of the Klein business, but it really does make your head spin: Money To Burn? Allen Klein's Rolling Stones Contracts | Music Biz 101 » Same with me. I just assumed the unofficial versions must be inferior to (or only as good as) the HR1 versions.... Wrong!!... I go back and forth on whether these are completely different mixes, or if they are somehow made from the same basic mixes. They have the same placements in the mixes, but the unofficial versions have less murk and are better sounding (and are slightly longer). But I suppose any stereo mix from 3-track is not going to differ radically in terms of panning. The right channel of Cloud makes me think they are probably different (but similar) mixes to HR1.... for now anyway.
The only true stereo mix of "Satisfaction" I heard had a keyboard that was totally out of the mono mix. This had to be the UK Hot Rocks 1 version (I heard it on the air so I'm not certain of its origin). Also why are all current releases that contain "Pain it Black" the mono mix when it was in true stereo on "Aftermath" (and "Through the Past Darkly")?
As you note, it's unlikely the panning would be any different considering they are 3-track recordings. But yes, the lower level of the right channel overdubs on Cloud in particular makes me think they are definitely different mixes. Not only audible, but quite visible looking at the waveforms. Correct, lots of people say "there's no piano on the mono mix", but there is, it's just harder to hear. The acoustic guitar and piano were recorded on the same track, and the piano is at a lower level than the guitar. That track is mixed lower in mono, and of course is not separated as in stereo. As far as Paint It Black goes, most current releases are stereo. Aftermath [US], Through The Past Darkly, and Hot Rocks all have the stereo mix. It's mono on The Singles Collection. It was the '80s ABKCO CDs that only used the mono mix for some reason.
The versions of Satisfaction and Get Off of my Cloud on Solid Gold Saturday Night definitely were the same mixes on the German Hot Rocks 1 that I own. Of course 19th is in mono on that Hot Rocks 1.
Thanks, lukpac, for all your great work and detailed info! There are, of course, some more 1964-1965 studio recordings available in stereo; be it official or not, rare or not...: Chess; June 10-11, 1964: Stewed And Keefed (aka Brian´s Blues) - unreleased Down In The Bottom - unreleased Hi-Heel Sneakers - unreleased Tell Me Baby (How Many Times) - unreleased Don´t Lie To Me - mixed (in wide stereo, w/piano overdub) for the unreleased 1972 compilation Necrophilia, released (in narrow stereo) on Metamorphosis RCA; May 12-13, 1965: I´ve Been Loving You Too Long - on the 2002 More Hot Rocks CD My Girl - (strings overdubbed 1966) - on Flowers Good Times - remixed (w/backing vocals overdub) for Necrophilia, unreleased RCA; September 5-6, 1965 or December 8-10, 1965: Looking Tired - unreleased I think that´s all...
Is there a stereo version floating around for Reelin' and Rockin'? That's a Chess recording, correct?
