Rolling Stones in Mono - 2016 - Content Discussion Only (Mixes, Tracks, etc.)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Strange. Thanks for checking.
     
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  2. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    Happily, no. Just a bit of dramatic liscense. I was actually having a mid morning coffee at the time (I did look skyward and say "thank you", though).
     
  3. detroit muscle

    detroit muscle MIA

    Location:
    UK
    With 166 pages of this thread I haven't the time to go through every post so sorry if this has been covered.

    There was talk of the albums in the mono box being released individually. 1st - any truth to this? and 2nd - any news of this happening?
     
  4. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    I would love it if these titles were made individually available.

    Even if the sound is inferior to the 2002 remasters, those mono mixes of Aftermath, Between the Buttons and Flowers sure makes this collection tempting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
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  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The noises in question are on the recording/mix, and can be heard on previous issues, such as the London Hot Rocks 1 CD. They were digitally removed for the SACDs.

    I'm not specifically aware of an SACD release with the noises, but it wouldn't surprise me if something slipped through on a particular pressing.
     
  6. Adam9

    Adam9 Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I just listened to the intro on the Japanese Hot Rocks 1 and the noises were there, unlike the SACD of Hot Rocks.
    Edit: so I can verify Luke's finding.
     
  7. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    I have a small question. Is the mono version of Time Is On My Side (with the guitar intro) that can be found on HDtracks's Rolling Stones No.2 a fold-down?

    It's 88/24, so I assume it comes from the 2002 DSD remastering.
     
  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Yes. All of the 1964 Chess tracks are fold-downs in mono.
     
  9. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    And they recorded both versions at Chess, right?

    So there is no true mono mix of this song period.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    No, the US/"organ intro" version was recorded in mono at Regent.
     
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  11. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    So what is version 1 and 2 on this list...

    stranger than known: Key To The Highway - The Rolling Stones at Chess Studios 1964 and 1965

    Recorded At Chess Studio Chicago, USA, 2120 South Michigan Avenue, 10/11 June 1964:
    1 - It's All Over Now 3:24
    2 - I Can't Be Satisfied 3:25
    3 - Stewed And Keefed 4:07
    4 - Around And Around 3:02
    5 - Confessin' The Blues 2:46
    6 - Down In The Bottom 2:42
    7 - Empty Heart 2:36
    8 - Hi- Heel Sneakers 2:57
    9 - Down The Road Apiece 2:54
    10 - If You Need Me 2:02
    11 - Look What You've Done 2:18
    12 - Tell Me Baby 1:53
    13 - Time Is On My Side (Version 1) 2:52
    14 - Reelin' And Rockin' 3:36
    15 - Don't You Lie To Me 1:59
    16 - 2120 South Michigan Avenue 3:40

    Recorded At Chess Studio, 8 November 1964:
    17 - What A Shame 3:04
    18 - Fanny Mae 2:12
    19 - Little Red Rooster 3:06
    20 - Time Is On My Side (Version 2) 3:00
    21 - Goodbye Girl 2:08
    22 - Key To The Highway 3:18
    23 - Mercy, Mercy (Version 1) 2:43

    Recorded At Chess Studio, 10 May 1965:
    24 - Mercy, Mercy (Version 2) 2:45
    25 - That's How Strong My Love Is 2:24
    26 - The Under-Assistant West Coast Promotion Man 3:22

    Bonus track
    27 - (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 2:44
     
  12. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Version 1 is the Regent version.
     
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  13. Amazing at this late point in time, I count no less than 11 tracks from this list that have still not seen official release (though they're widely booted of course). A few caveats though - I've never heard the "Fanny Mae" listed as being recorded 11-8-64 - is this actually the familiar BBC version recorded later in '65? And "Don't Lie to Me" to my knowledge has never been released sans overdubs.

    The Stones really need an updated archival release that collects all this stuff - amazing they've let the putrid Metamorphosis stand to this date as the only attempt...
     
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  14. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    So the list above is wrong.

    How many songs on the list were actually recorded at Regent?
     
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not sure about everything offhand, but Little Red Rooster is also from Regent.
     
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  16. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    One last one for you:

    Is there a list of known Stones folddowns from 1964 to 1969?
     
  17. greenoort

    greenoort Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    Is Satanic Majesties Request on this? That album in my opinion is great, but is absolutely destroyed by the terrible stereo mix it has.
     
  18. Ironbelly

    Ironbelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Porto, Portugal
    This list (I suppose) came from the back cover of the bootleg 2120 South Michigan Ave. Those guys could write whatever they feel right to increase the sales.
    [​IMG]
    I would suggest better info sources like Nico Zentgraf page
    The Complete Works of the Rolling Stones - Database
    or Martin Elliott complete recording sessions
    The Rolling Stones Complete Recording Sessions - Appendices
    as a starting points.
     
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  19. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
  20. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    I guess these must be recent 64-65 fold-downs for the exclusive british albums made available on HDtracks in 2013.

    The Rolling Stones No. 2 - Time Is On My Side (guitar intro)
    The Rolling Stones No. 2 - I Can't Be Satisfied
    The Rolling Stones No. 2 (The Rolling Stones, Now!)- Down The Road Apiece

    Five by Five EP
    12 X 5 - Around And Around
    12 X 5 - Confessin' The Blues
    12 X 5 - Empty Heart
    12 X 5 - 2120 South Michigan Avenue
    12 X 5 - If You Need Me

    And then two new fold-down for the 2016 set...

    December's Children - Look What You've Done
    I've Been Loving You Too Long
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  21. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    It's great in mono.
     
  22. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Any tracks on my folddown list above (post 4145) that could have been newly mixed for the 2016 mono set?

    The Five by Five EP and Rolling Stones No.2 from HDtracks was the first time these tracks appeared in mono, but I don't have the 2016 set to compare.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  23. nikosvault

    nikosvault Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Ups. I think Time Is On My Side (guitar intro version) did appear in mono on the old Hot Rocks CD.
     
  24. Ironbelly

    Ironbelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Porto, Portugal
    lukpac made some comparison here. Can't find the post right from the scratch, but I believe it should be around September 12-16, 2016.
    I have a copy of that summary
    The Rolling Stones
    - Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
    - Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
    - Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.

    12 X 5
    - Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
    - Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
    - It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    No. 2
    - Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
    - Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
    - I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).

    Now!
    - Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
    - Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
    - What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
    - Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
    - Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.

    Out of Our Heads [US]
    - Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    Out of Our Heads [UK]
    - She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
    - Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
    - Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    December's Children
    - You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
    - Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.

    Aftermath [UK]
    - Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
    - Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
    - Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
    - I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
    - Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.

    Aftermath [US]
    - Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
    - Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
    - I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
    - Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).

    Between The Buttons [UK]
    - Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
    - Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
    - Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
    - All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
    - Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
    - Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.

    Flowers
    - Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
    - Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
    - Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
    - Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.

    Their Satanic Majesties Request
    - In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
    - She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
    - The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
    - 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

    Beggars Banquet
    - Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
    - No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
    - Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
    - Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
    - Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.

    Let It Bleed
    - Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
    - Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.

    Stray Cats
    - I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
    - Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
    - 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
    - Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
    - Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
    - Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
    - You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.
     
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  25. Ironbelly

    Ironbelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Porto, Portugal
    Sure. On ABKCO pressings it was in mono. On West German London pressings - in stereo.
     

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