Rolling Stones in Mono - 2016 - Content Discussion Only (Mixes, Tracks, etc.)*

What else...

- French horn has reverb and is more distant
- rhythm section is much louder
- starts out acoustic guitar left/horn right, but at about 1:52 the acoustic guitar pans over to the right
- fade is about 10 seconds longer

Other differences, but that's all for now.

 

Is there indeed a drum roll at the end?

 

Meanwhile waiting for the mono set, I have been revisiting the stereo albums. Lukpac's information of narrowing and NR on BTB was very useful, but what the heck is going on in the end of Cool, Calm & Collected? I compared ABKCO UK remaster and the old London cd. The remaster has a really harsh volume tremolo on the right channel in the end of the song. The London cd had some also, but starting later and barely audible.
I had to check out my vinyl versions of it (german Decca 70's and US London) and neither have that thing.
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already here, but... whaaat is this?

 

Thanks for this, Luke. Now I'm even more confused

It's definitely a different mix. What seems remarkable is that, unless an edited copy of the multitrack was made to facilitate easy remixing of the 'single version', those several edits had to be done on at least two different mixes (3 if the mono is dedicated and not folded). I could line up all 3 version to see if the edits match exactly.

It sounds really odd when the acoustic guitar switches channels (it sounds like it drops out for a while before showing up quieter in the opposite channel).

This clip might support the theory that the 'single edit' was copied to another multitrack, and mixed from there - this video seems to be the single edit but with live vocals (i.e. yet another mix, this time with the vocal track mixed out as much as it could be):



As the Singles Collection / GRRR! version seems to be very similar to the album mix, maybe it's just the album version re-edited sometime recently? And not the proper stereo single mix?

 

Yes. The track is about 8 seconds longer and you hear another brief drum roll. The drums are also mixed louder.

 

Re: the 'Collectors Only' album...

This was a 1980 German compilation, and I'd wager that UK Decca did not have the tape of the stereo single YCAGWYW - as I said previously, their 1981 'Slow Rollers' comp still had this track in mono. I think it was mono on all UK singles too and have never seen evidence of a UK stereo release (prior to the 1989 Singles Collection, though this might not be the genuine stereo single mix, as noted above - plus the 1989 differed from the 2002 by having the intro in mono/very narrow stereo).

Also on the CO album is a live version of 'Get Off Of My Cloud' - this is reportedly (though not definitely) the 1966 'Got Live' album version (but why this one track from that LP? I don't have Collectors Only, btw), though they went to the trouble of crossfading it with the 1965 'Got Live' EP tracks that precede it on the compilation.

The Discogs site lists the Collectors Only album as mono, though obviously at least YCAGWYW is stereo (!?!)

 

Hate to tell you but one of the largest multimedia dealers in continental Europe - French based FNAC (and amazon.fr) pushed the release date till October 21.

https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0...a-2ce9-4507-acf3-f5b764f1c407&pf_rd_i=desktop
The Rolling Stones in Mono - The Rolling Stones sur Fnac.com »

 

Wonderful news. I hope it's somebody's mistake.

 

this is really interesting, fantastic research and thanks very, very much for sharing.
Reading this, what you are saying is that most of it are the 2002 DSD transfers, either in original mono or folded to mono for this release. With the odd new transfer thrown in to correct mistakes made previosly, but at unknown resolution.
Meaning, for those already in possession of tge riginal 2002 vinyl and the the 60s box set from a couple of years ago, thus new compilation box set is utterly superflous. Same transfers, folded to mono as required.

 

Luke, I'm using this track as an example. What does "same transfer" imply? Do you mean that the same analog source was used in creating a new 2016 digital mastering? Or does it mean that an intermediate digital source that had been created in 2002 was used for the 2016 mastering?

 

well, well, thanks for this.
I'll have to go play my copies of collectors only.....
The German, the French, the LeBlanc reissue..........

 

And where can I find this version?

 

Listening to the different versions of 'You Can't Always Get What You Want'.... (BTW, I forgot earlier that the 2002 Singles Collection version is in fact mono) -

1. Collectors Only - original(?) stereo single edit... A completely different mix to the full-length version on LIB. Intro seems to be quieter here than the others.
2. 1989 Singles Collection - alternate stereo single edit... This seems like it might be the LIB stereo mix, edited to match the single. The intro is narrowed here.
3. GRRR! - alternate stereo single edit... As above, but the intro is not narrowed.
4. Let It Bleed - full-length stereo mix... As I say, the portions of this mix used in the above two versions seem to be the same, as far as I can tell.
5. 2002 Singles Collection - mono single edit... Intro is duller than Stray Cats, maybe NR. The rest of the track is similar to Stray Cats, maybe even a bit brighter.
6. Stray Cats - mono single edit... Same mix as above, but intro sounds more natural here, tape hiss now audible. This one is probably my favourite edited version.
7. TV Version - mono single edit without vocal track... For broadcast with new live vocals (posted earlier). This seems to match the single edit (even though Mick actually sings the 'demonstration' verse on the broadcast instead of the 'Jimmy' verse). Did they have to keep making these edits, or did they copy and edit the 8-track?

As far as I can tell, I don't think the mono single version is a fold of either of the stereo edits.

 

The new compilation box set contains Flowers, Between the Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, and Aftermath which the Stones have never released entirely in mono on any digital format. What's better is that those mono albums are incredibly valuable in the LP market, making this Stones box a no-brainer purchase for Stones mono lovers. Also, don't forget about the first digital mono release of "Sympathy for the Devil". The box is a mono crowd pleaser for sure.

 

That one is a mystery to me. The London CD seems to have been taken from the US copy tape, so one might assume there was some sort of processing during the copy that reduced that effect. But everything else suggests that (other than being slightly off-speed) the US BTB stereo master is a straight dub, with little to no processing. I have no idea why the effect is so much more pronounced on the SACD. I can't imagine ABKCO somehow doing that themselves.

Presumably it's a French comp, no? Compiled by Jacques Leblanc. Also released in Germany.

Mono except for Memo From Turner and YCAGWYW.

Cloud is the Got Live LP version, mono. I'm not sure why it was included.

It means digital transfers were made circa 2002, were used for the SACDs, and were used again here. The 2002 and 2016 versions stay in perfect sync (unless otherwise noted).

You Can't Always Get What You Want [stereo 45 mix samples]

You can hear the intro, where the acoustic guitar pans from left to right, and the extended fade.

 

Thank you for sorting this out. Gosh not much material really is there? Guess we are all a bit bonkers to buy this set on cd. At least the 2002 used the far superior sacd format as well. Vinyl well that is a different thing altogether so I don't mind that. Good originals are not cheap.

 

Hope this does not derail thread but I guess the red album sort of did the job of A Collection of Beatles Oldies (poor title and awful cover art) back in 1973. I did buy Flowers in the 1970s to fill out my Stones album collection. It is stereo with a blue label. Looking at the track list now I have no idea who it was aimed at. But it was the Stones and if it went gold that will have beaten most other bands.

 

So other than BTB, Aftermath and TSMR, if I own the SACDs do I need to bother with any of the other titles ? (I don't care about Sympathy in mono either).

 

Yeah, that's true
For Between the Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request and Aftermath, assuming they actually use the real mono mixes, it's pretty cool. Even if you think, like me, the stereo mixes sound better....
The mono Sympathy is pretty cool too, but I'm not sure how much I'd play it if my stereo was not slow....
It is cool though, the mono mix of Sympathy is noticeably different to the stereo. Even after adjusting for the speed....

 

I'm happy to hear less NR is used this time...

 

Ok, but when you note that 'NR' appears to have been applied in 2002, but likely not for 2016 (in certain examples), then are you referring to the 2002 redbook? Just wondering if the 2002 DSD transfer had 'NR' applied to both hybrid layers or only the redbook. So then it might follow that the 2002 DSD was used for the 2016 redbook and they didn't 'NR' this time.

I guess I also wondered if the same exact analog source could have been used and thus you might hear perfect sync. If there are claims on the packaging that all tracks are mastered from analog source tapes specifically for this 2016 remaster project, then it would be troubling if ABKCO is so loose with the whole truth.

 

If there are any spots where NR was applied to the Redbook layer but not the SACD layer, we haven't come across them. That is, NR *is* on the SACD layer.

As has been noted, digital transfers were made circa 2002. Ignoring for a moment any "restoration" (the entire process ABKCO undertook remains somewhat less than clear), those transfers were used by Bob Ludwig for mastering. In many cases the same transfers were mastered again for the mono box.

No.

What I've seen thus far has been relatively vague, which more or less lets ABKCO off the hook.

 

One in a million chance of that happening. But if you use the same 'raw' digital transfers, they will definitely stay in sync.

 

Er...if they stay in sync, the same transfers were used. But using the same transfers doesn't necessarily mean they'll stay in sync. For example: Miss Amanda Jones on the Remastered sampler and Between The Buttons. They stay in sync for a moment, then one loses a sample, then another sample a moment later, etc. I *guess* this was due to some different in sample rate conversion, either from DSD or higher resolution PCM, but I'm not certain.

 

Yes, a similar thing happened on the Beatles 'US Albums' box - most songs drifted out by a couple of samples by the end, which I put down to them probably working with the hi-res transfers and then sampling down. In any case, it was obvious they were made from the same initial transfers as the 2009's (where the tracks were the same).