Rolling Stones in Mono - 2016 - Content Discussion Only (Mixes, Tracks, etc.)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. MHP

    MHP Forum Resident

    Location:
    DK
    Have you heard the Five By Five EP on The Singles 1963-65 box? Presumeably that's the tape they have used again. On that release there are no tape-drags to be aware of. In fact they sound a lot like the old London cd.
     
  2. tages

    tages Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I was under the impression it was a fold down on the "Singles Collection" SACD (or at least an alternate mix). It sure didn't sound like the same mix on the mono UK "Through The Past Darkly" LP to me (and that one had a much quicker fade if I recall correctly).
     
  3. crispi

    crispi Sound Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    :D by The Rolling Stone's?
     
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  4. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    This mix of YCAGWYW was also on at least some of the singles. But yes, 'unique' in that it has never been on CD.
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    They are fairly similar, but don't stay in sync. I'm not certain if the same tape was used or not.

    The mono mix on the 2002 Singles Collection seems to be identical to this one, although it's a different transfer. The fade on the stereo mix is about 2 seconds longer.

    I just went back and checked all of the Chess tracks on 12 X 5; all are fold-downs of the 2002 stereo transfers except Confessin'. I also checked a few songs on Let It Bleed and cleaned a few things up. There's a bit of info from Flowers, but I still want to compare more there.

    The Rolling Stones
    - Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
    - Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
    - Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.

    12 X 5
    - Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
    - Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
    - It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    No. 2
    - Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
    - Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
    - I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).

    Now!
    - Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
    - Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
    - What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
    - Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
    - Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.

    Out of Our Heads [US]
    - Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    Out of Our Heads [UK]
    - She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
    - Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
    - Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.

    December's Children
    - You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
    - Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
    - Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.

    Aftermath [UK]
    - Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
    - Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
    - Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
    - I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
    - Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.

    Aftermath [US]
    - Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
    - Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
    - I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
    - Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).

    Between The Buttons [UK]
    - Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
    - Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
    - Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
    - All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
    - Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
    - Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.

    Flowers
    - Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
    - Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
    - Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
    - Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.

    Their Satanic Majesties Request
    - In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
    - She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
    - The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
    - 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

    Beggars Banquet
    - Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
    - No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
    - Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
    - Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
    - Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.

    Let It Bleed
    - Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
    - Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
    - You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.

    Stray Cats

    - I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
    - Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
    - 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
    - Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
    - Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
    - Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
    - You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.
     
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  6. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Are these previously unreleased, then? Or have they "snuck out" previously. Also, what needledrop are you comparing to? A drop of Flowers, or BTB? Are they fold-downs on the drops of both BTB and Flowers? And what do they use for these tracks on the Flowers disc in this set?

    Also, it's quite strange that the Aftermath US disc features some longer fades, since the original was simply a fold-down.
     
  7. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Thanks for this. Would be amazing if we could get a list of all the different transfers from the 2002 remasters.
     
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  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    If they have been released before, nobody seems to be aware of it. Fold-downs on Flowers and BTB.

    Same on the Flowers disc. Back Street Girl seems to have a *very* slight level or EQ difference, while Please Go Home is completely identical.

    Aftermath US doesn't have longer fades, Aftermath UK has shorter fades. Why, I don't know. Regardless, ABKCO has ignored the fact that the original US LP was a fold-down.
     
  9. Ironbelly

    Ironbelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Porto, Portugal
    Luke, do you have HDtracks digital version of No2? I believe it was out a couple of years ago in 88/24 and 176/24 format. And it was all mono. Is it possible that they recycle that one?
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I just checked 3 versions Everybody Needs Somebody To Love:

    - 2002 More Hot Rocks (SACD rip)
    - 2011 No. 2 (HDtracks)
    - 2016 No. 2 (mono box)

    All three are the same A/D transfer, but the mono box is the outlier. The first two are identical other than a difference in level, while the mono box has slightly different EQ (which I personally don't like as much).
     
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  11. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Hmm, this all seems very messy. Now all this stuff will go through my head when I listen. :laugh:

    Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss. :uhhuh:
     
  12. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York

    Poor wording on my part, I meant longer fades compared to the UK disc from this set, not longer in general.

    I think it's cool that we get newly released mono mixes of Back Street Girl and Please Go Home, but seeing as how they both appear twice in the set, I think they should have made one appearance the fold-downs. Oh well.
     
  13. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Unless I haven't spotted something yet, with the exceptions of the fades on I Am Waiting and Think, all of the duplicated tracks are *basically* identical, with only the smallest differences in level, EQ, and fades. The types of things one probably wouldn't notice unless putting them under a microscope.
     
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  14. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Which is why I'll be building only one mono Aftermath in iTunes, using mostly the UK disc, except for those two tracks.
     
  15. Ben in Colorado

    Ben in Colorado Spending into extinction.

    Location:
    Boulder Colorado
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  16. Jack

    Jack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orange, MA
    I don't read any of these comparisons and details. I'm listening with fresh ears, baby.
     
  17. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    I hadn't seen the reveal photos yet. Nice!

    No one seems to be buying it though.
     
  18. Oyster Boy

    Oyster Boy Forum Resident

    Lukpac has already obviously put an amazing amount of work into this but I was going to ask the same, even just in terms of a total number broken out between unique mix and folddown from 2002.
     
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  19. Jack

    Jack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orange, MA
    I am.
     
  20. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    Bit confused. I know some Stones tracks were only mixed in stereo and therefore for a mono release a fold down of the stereo mix tape was made. This was done around the time the albums got put together prior to release. Why would you not use the fold down tapes made at that time if they exist?
     
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  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Er...why *would* you use them? What good is another tape generation (at least) made under what were likely less than great conditions?
     
  22. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    Right thanks I think the penny is finally dropping on the fold down. You might as well use the best stereo mix tape you have and fold that down to mono. Therefore the 2002 stereos folded to mono make sense. I think I am finally with the programme.
     
  23. gryff

    gryff Active Member

    Many people (myself included) would prefer to hear the mono mixes as originally released.
     
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  24. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    With a few exceptions (Heart of Stone, 19th Nervous Breakdown, etc), they are.
     
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  25. TonyCzar

    TonyCzar Forum Resident

    Location:
    PhIladelphia, PA
    I despair of seeing the "Electronically reprocessed for STEREO" box set before I die.
     
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