Ronnie James Dio in Black Sabbath

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Siegmund, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    I wasn't familiar with the Dio-era Sabbath albums until very recently, although I was familiar with the radio 'hits'.

    I was less compelled to investigate this (brief) period in the band's history, because I have never much cared for Dio's fantasy themes, even though I love his voice (and his persona).

    As it turns out, H&H and MR are very strong albums indeed - having Dio in the band seemed to give Iommi and Butler a shot in the arm: it effectively became a 'new' band and although it is a little strange to hear Dio singing Sabbath classics on the live albums included in the Deluxe Editions, he does an excellent job, to my ears.

    This version of the band was probably destined to be short-lived, as Dio had very strong views on the direction it should take and he was by no means outranked by the others - he arrived in the band a star in his own right, whose profile was bigger than that of the others in 1979/80.

    As such a clean break was made with the past when Dio was recruited, I think it would have made sense to ditch the Sabbath name and effectively make it a new band - this idea seems to have been mooted at the time, but presumably Sabbath was still felt to be too strong as a brand name to drop?

    How are the Dio-era albums currently rated by Sabbath fans, I wonder?
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  2. walrus

    walrus Forum Resident

    Nashville, TN
    Huge fan of Dio-era Sabbath. At this point in my life, I honestly play it more than most Ozzy-era stuff. Just having an exceptionally talented singer who contributed creatively allowed the band to go so much farther musically than they could with Ozzy. (admittedly this is probably also why the lineup was short-lived)
  3. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    From what I can gather, I think that Dio was basically a leader by inclination. Not an egotist, or an auteur, just someone who naturally took a lead in whatever he did and once Blackmore had given him his big break, he knew what he wanted to do and where he wanted to go. He was always going to lead his own band at some point and joining an existing outfit was never going to be without friction.
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Member Of The Midnight Society

    Greater St. Louis
    I love both studio albums. I feel Heaven and Hell is on the same level as any of the original eight. Mob Rules is not quite as good, but still heavy and fun. Tony plays mean lead guitar throughout both albums.
  5. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    I would say both albums are on the same level: Sign Of The Southern Cross is the finest thing they did, imo.
  6. Jimmy Agates

    Jimmy Agates Forum Resident

    Dio's finest hours and Sabbath's also. Both albums are incredible.
  7. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    I just read the Wiki page on Heaven and Hell - Heaven and Hell (Black Sabbath album) - Wikipedia , it's worth a read. Would love to hear some of the Ozzy stuff.

    I recall Heaven and Hell being a good album, and liking it at the time. However, as time moved on I grew more resentful of how Sabbath had gone (oh, the foibles of ignorance and youth!) and thus have not heard it in decades. These days it's Ozzy era or nothing.
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  8. neo123

    neo123 Forum Resident

    Northern Kentucky
    Heaven And Hell is my favorite Black Sabbath album and was the first one I ever bought back when it was released in 1980. The Ozzy-era I was only familiar with the classic songs that got airplay, such as Paranoid, Iron Man, etc. It was because of the Dio-era of Sabbath (and Ozzy's solo career after Sabbath,) I got into Ozzy-era Sabbath and buying their back catalogue. I even bought a few Sabbath albums after Dio left. I think I am only missing 4 albums of theirs: Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden.

    I think 1992's Dehumanizer is a strong Dio-fronted Sabbath album too. 2009's The Devil You Know (under the band name Heaven And Hell) is probably the weakest of the 4 Dio-fronted albums but that tour was the only time I saw them in concert and I had a blast. I just wish I had seen them back in their prime at least once with both Dio and Ozzy fronting.
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  9. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    They definitely benefited from metal/hard rock becoming fashionable again in the early 80s: Sabbath were on of the few 'heritage' acts still performing at that point.

    I'm not familiar with anything after Mob Rules. How do the succeeding albums stack up?
  10. Yam Graham

    Yam Graham Forum Resident

    West Midlands,UK.
    Heaven And Hell is a classic album.
    Always felt Mob Rules was a step down, but recently have found it to grow on me more.
    Maybe a name change, but it was a interesting change of direction at the time....and at that point, Ozzy seemed washed up.
    But for me....Black Sabbath has Ozzy on vocals..... and the 1970 - 1978 era is it.
  11. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Heaven and Hell is one of my favorites of theirs, better than some by the original lineup. I like Mob Rules, but not quite as much. Born Again is worth a listen, and I happen to like Seventh Star even though it really is an Iommi solo album (he wanted it to be, but the record company insisted on it being billed as Black Sabbath). I'm not familiar with anything later except the recent 13, which I thought was a successful reunion album (except I wish Bill Ward was on drums).
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  12. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    I saw an interview with RJD once, where he basically said this.

    I think of the Dio-fronted band as an 'alternative' Sabbath. Dio's presence changed almost everything about the band (not in a bad way, either).
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  13. sgtpppr84

    sgtpppr84 Forum Resident

    Midland, TX
    The live album released after Mob Rules is decent but not necessarily mandatory listening. I rank the 90s reunion album Dehumanizer as being right up there with the first two Dio albums.
  14. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I would run out and get Live Evil and Dehumanizer as well.
  15. zphage

    zphage Beatard

    Bucks County, PA
    Fan meet and greet with Iommi, Geezer, Vinny and Ronnie where fan is reminded to be gentle with the band

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  16. clhboa

    clhboa Forum Resident

    I'm so glad I didn't have to stand next to them in line.
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  17. Dio was a fantastic singer from Rainbow with Richie Blackmore.

    Heaven and Hell album imo: classic, Heaven and Hell and Children of the Sea are some of my favorites.

    Mob Rules: Sign of the Southern Cross, Country Girl, Over and Over. These are great songs I think, and (Mob Rules) on the Heavy Metal soundtrack.

    Dehumanizer: Great album!
    Master of Insanity, Too Late... The whole album is awesome.
    Time Machine, I...

    I saw them at the Palace Theatre in Albany NY in 1992 and it was a great show.
    I am a fan of RJD's solo records and all of the original Black Sabbath releases.

    Only time I got to see the original lineup was Ozzfest
    Obviously they were the final performance of the night.

    I am a rabid fan of Sabbath and RJD and I would also say in retrospect, check out TYR and some of the other Sabbath incarnations also. Tony Iommi's solo albums are great too!
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  18. Todd W.

    Todd W. A Beautiful woman continued.........


    If you want a live album and DVD, run out and get these also..........The Side 2 of Mob Rules Live CD is absolutely killer........

  19. Mr.Sean

    Mr.Sean Senior Member

    Heaven and Hell is a great album.
  20. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    Everyone else in that room has my sympathy!
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  21. townsend

    townsend Forum Resident

    Montrose, CO
    I'm glad to hear that Black Sabbath "Mark II" lineup is well liked.

    But Black Sabbath is Osbourne, Iommi, Butler, and Ward. Period. And the first four albums stand very, very tall . . .

    It all started with a storm -- rain, thunder, and a bell tolling:
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  22. Cornfed Hick

    Cornfed Hick Forum Resident

    I agree, the Deluxe Edition of Mob Rules is a great product and a model of what "deluxe" reissues should be. It is remastered very well (though the original CD mastering is outstanding too), it has the "demo" version of the title track as used in the Heavy Metal film, which sounds even better than the album version, and it has the Hammersmith show on disc 2, which is a better performance and better recording/mix than Live Evil. I've read that Ronnie left the band as a result of his dissatisfaction with the Live Evil mix.

    I'm a huge Sabbath fan, and Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules are both essential, in my view. Ronnie definitely had his influence, though the albums also reflected where metal was going in the early 1980s. Sabbath began using the faster tempos seen in the New Wave of British Heavy Metal emerging at that time, with Iron Maiden in the vanguard. It's a tribute to the Sabbath guys that they were right on time in recognizing that movement and joining those younger bands like Maiden in pushing the sound of metal in a new direction.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  23. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    The Dio-Sabbath albums are neither Sabbath's best work nor Dio's best work, but of course they are great albums. I really loved H&H when it was released. I liked Mob Rules but recognized it as a step down from previous.

    I far preferred Dio with Blackmore - he seemed to sing better, the songs were a bit broader in scope, and the lyrics were better. And to me, the original Sabbath canon with Ozzy just can't be matched. I still play all the original Sabbath albums much more than the Dio-Sabbath albums.

    Perhaps it would have made sense for them to take another name, but in practical terms that probably would have been like pissing a million dollars out the window. A band name with a ten-year history of recognition and success is not to be discarded. Just ask Billion Dollar Babies.
  24. Siegmund

    Siegmund Forum Resident Thread Starter

    England, UK
    True, but the members of Sabbath were very well-known in their own right among rock fans and Dio himself was a fairly big star at the turn of the 70s. The other members of Alice Cooper were largely unknown to the public, most of whom thought A.C. was its frontman, not the name of the whole band.
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  25. Stuevts

    Stuevts Dave's not here.

    The first video I ever saw (before MTV) was Sabbath with Dio - Neon Nights.
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