Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Siegmund, Aug 1, 2017.
So fashion is very important to you. That’s interesting. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Ozzy's are even better.
Oh wait, he didn't even write them.
Heaven and hell is a fine album, but IMO could of been better if Bill Ward was more at the top of his game. I also thought Bill was the weak link on Born again along with under written songs and horrid production. I'm keeping it real here, no mulligans for one of rocks more important drummers. Mob rules on the other hand is an album of all deep cuts, but good ones, and IMO Vinnie Appice should have always played in the band when Bill wasn't. VA IMO is Sabbaths 2nd best drummer, and not even close. I've spent a lot less time with the other 2 studio albums, though I like them, I'm not qualified to comment beyond that. There was a live album with Dio in the 80's which I didn't think was that good.
After the Ozzy years from 97 on, it seemed very redundant to me for the band to get back together with Ronnie, at least at the time. Having watched videos of shows, I really wish I had made the effort and gotten out and seen Heaven and Hell. They were on their game and played well, and IMO were so much better than with Oz in the 2000's.....
I would say that Bill Ward's drumming would have only gotten even better had it been allowed more prominence, since on H&H his approach had to change a bit to suit the music of the new Sabbath with Dio. Even so, some of what Ward does on H&H is just mind boggling. Anyways, I think their further election of Appice's more straight ahead pounding was a good decision, since in my book Vinnie Appice did a great job on Mob Rules.
I like the behind the beat feel Bill puts on some of the tracks, but he has said he has no memory of recording the album. IMO therein lies the issues... That said, he got it done OK. I would love to hear BA with 73 Bill Ward and other tweaks.......
Ward is a different type of drummer. And, also in my viewpoint, he is for sure on a different planet.
I thought one of the biggest bummers on Heaven and Hell was that, as you mention, due to the musical style of the material written by Dio & Iommi, Ward was not able to play in his normal loose, kind of swing style that he had in all the other Sabbath albums. I mentioned this in my review of H&H in the Sabbath album by album thread. He's pretty much playing straight forward rhythms and keeping it very even and level. That said, he does a great job playing even if he was black out drunk during the entire recording of the album. As mentioned, he does a fine job on Born Again as well replicating that more straight ahead style. Still, kind of a waste.
I thought Ward's drumming on Born Again was great, especially on Trashed.
I'd love to do a thorough examination of both Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules for the board, but I don't have time. I'm afraid my reviews from the Black Sabbath album by album thread will have to suffice. Besides, I think I've more than put my .2 cents on Sabbath here on this board. I don't think many want to hear from me anymore about them. Time for some new blood to step in (I say, I say, I say).
I'll always want to hear what you have to say.... unless your opinion is wrong.
Hell, brah, that's all the time.
Wee Ronnie was arguably their next best after Ozzy, but everything after Sabotage was a massive let down, IMO.
Although I don't think I'd play it very often, you could just about make a passable album out of the best stuff from H&H & MR:
Lonely Is The Word
Over and Over
and if only to pad it out, either H&H or SotSC, but not both
Live Evil was a disaster, think I only played it once!
Live Evil is pretty bad. I was in the audience for some of the recording for that album.
I like your list but you left the best song from either album: “Falling Off the Edge of the World”. I’d include “Children of the Sea” and “Sign of the Southern Cross” though neither are favorites.
While Live Evil is a sonic mess, I think NIB and Children of the Grave are the definitive versions.
Of course you do because you prefer Dio to Ozzy . I respect your opinion but politely disagree.
Did you heckle them? I would've!
I just realised FOtEotW is what I meant, not Slipping Away . Although I might include Slipping Away too.
Folks upthread talking about Spiinal Tap are close to the truth about this lineup, but more than that, and quite apart from the often comical lyrics, the awkward/medieval rhythm of many Dio-Sabs songs always evoked the unfortunate image of Heavy Metal Morris Dancing! IMO.
I like The Dio Years compilation a lot. It leaves out a few key tracks but it's put together well. It has a very listenable track order which is not always the case with best-ofs.
Why would I heckle him? It was the best concert I ever went to. I was so happy to be there.
I think the Spinal Tap thing is accurate and certainly Sabbath’s “Stonehenge” prop catastrophe from the Born Again tour inspired one of the funniest bits in the movie, but certainly bands like Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Status Quo, and Bloodrock we’re also big inspirations for that movie.
Not only is it ridiculous because of Dio trying to do Ozzy classics, but just as much because of Vinnie Appice trying to do Bill Ward classics. A true abomination IMO. Of course, I never liked Coverdale and Hughes trying to do DP MK2 songs either...so maybe it’s just me.
A true lover of music would be happy!
What kind of person heckles some of the greats in music history?
Not a 15 year old kid that worshiped the band was lucky enough to go even though the weather was terrible. I’ll always have great memories of that show and great love for my father who took me despite the horrible rain he had to drive through and his best friend getting angry with him for going against what they had agreed. His friend’s son didn’t go and it caused problems for my dad. Anyway, enough of my travels down memory lane.
Dio is overly dramatic on the Rhino Live at the Hamersmith CD. I prefer his solo albums.
I don't really know Live Evil but the version of Children of the Sea on the Dio Years is from that and it's fantastic. So at least it had that going for it.
Dio’s biggest problem, as I’ve mentioned before, was his tendency to over emote. He was never more guilty of this than when covering Ozzy songs live. He ruined them. It was a great decision to cut all Ozzy material out of the sets with him and just call the band Heaven and Hell. He hated doing the Ozzy stuff and I hated hearing him do it.
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