Ronnie James Dio in Black Sabbath

Yep, I agree with most of this. You definitely got a point with the rhyme thing! "It's only been an hour since he locked her in the tower" is one of the worst examples - I am glad it is not on a Sabbath album. Without those awkward moments, the Dio-era Rainbow and Sabbath albums would have been even better than they were. I do think, however, that Ronnie's treatment of robots and computers on Dehumanizer was a little similar to his treatment of women and dragons on earlier albums. ;-) Not as bad, but still seriously clichéd and in need of improvement.

On a side note, it is ironic, and a little sad, that someone apparently so critical of technology had a final studio album that was overcompressed to an extent that my ears bleed every time I listen to it.
Album details - Dynamic Range Database

Thank you very much for posting this, great interview bit with Ronnie. Wasn't aware of it. He didn't always show this (highly valuable) ability to laugh about himself. Love his statement here.

IMO Tonnie always wrote some good and some bad lyrics, and many songs of his are mixed bags lyricwise. Luckily, many of his songs are much better than "Lady Evil".

The way I read Danny Duberstein's comment, he was trying to say, more or less, that some of RJD's lyrics were extremely clichéd. I fuly agree with that (while at the same time maintaining that doesn't apply to ALL his lyrics, see above). The fact that he was (probably) quite serious when writing them doesn't exactly make it better IMO. Spinal Tap is a great move precisely because it is intended as a parody, and works perfectly that way.

No intelligent person would ever deny that there are bad women (and men, obviously) in the world. That doesn't imply that every song who deals with evil women is exactly a masterpiece of wisdom. Lady Evil is so full of 1000 of years' old patriarchal stereotypes that I wouldn't even know how to start explaining in detail what I dislike about them. And if RJD indeed believed in what he wrote there (I hope he didn't), that would be worrying rather than relieving.

As for Tolkien, well, even many admirers of his works admit that they do contain some serious stereotyping too. See e.g. here a discussion on some possible racist images in Tolkien:
tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racism_in_Tolkien's_Works
To be sure, at the same time he was a strong opponent of Nazi ideology and racial segregation, and there seem to be interesting developments in his works and thinking over time regarding those issues. Maybe we can just agree that many things and people in the world aren't exclusively good or bad, so even if Ronnie wrote some very questionable lyrics, he can at the same time totally be a good person and great musician?

Pretty good analysis I think.

 

We're all, to a greater or lesser extent, a product of our time. Judging people from past eras while we look at them through 2018-coloured glasses might be a mistake, especially if all we're going by is their fantasy/fiction works.

 

I agree, the historical era and context definitely need to be taken into account. I don't really see a contradiction here, and anyway my main point was really about RJD, I was using Tolkien just as an example.

 

I've always thought the title, "Turn Up the Night" was eye-roll worthy.

Explanation for the title...
Dio is basically saying "bring on the night" because it's time to get it on. - Steve (2010) italki: Learn a language online

 

Anyone else think "Lonely is the Word" is the best thing they ever did?

I'm not an uber fan from any camp.

 

LOL I'm listening to this for the first time NOW and I believe it....

I like it though.... I'm surprised at the dissing it gets.

I like this IRON MAN better.

 

Live Evil also has looped applause

 

DIO in any band has raised the bar.
name it, he has far surpassed his capabilities. one of the best front men / singer /lyricist / songwriters of our generation

 

Dio had a great voice, but Ozzy was still the King of Metal...

 

I own it!

 

All the other relevant threads are now closed, so I guess this is the best place to post the fact that I have really grown to appreciate Heaven and Hell.

The songs that I used to hear with Sabbath ears, that felt lightweight ("Lady Evil," "Wishing Well," "Walkaway"), I now really enjoy as part of the overall experience. I was too resistant, perhaps.

There's a freshness to the album, a sheen that used to feel too mainstream but has actually aged incredibly well. It might not quite reach the parts that original Sabbath albums reached, but it's an album that I always enjoy returning to--again and again. A really fine album.

 

Watched the H&H dvd from Radio City Hall last night.

Man, that's such a great set, and even though the band are all getting on a bit in years, they still pull the music off with aplomb. That Dio scream at the start of Mob Rules.....

It's a muscular sound mix, and I enjoy this version of the tracks taken from Mob and Dehumaniser - the bass and drums have more weight behind them than the original studio versions.

And Dio comes across as a genuine guy, frequently taking time to step over the monitors and fist bump the fans at the front of the stage.

Yes, there's sadness knowing that Dio would pass away a couple of years later, so this live album is a fine testimony to that line-up, and you can see they're all enjoying the moment. With so many bands breaking up acrimoniously (including Bill Ward not returning to the fold for the last Ozzy gigs), it's nice to see that Dio and the guys had settled any past differences and just got on with enjoying making music together again.

 

I was there...it was a magical night.

 

But no "Magical, mystical women" ?

 

I just listened to that song the other day. Just an incredible epic. Seeing them play that live , Geezer is a beast of a bass player.

 

I would tend to agree with everything you said.
I rate Heaven and hell and Mob rules, the third one they did i forgot the name of, and there;s a reason for that lol

 

Maybe Rhino will finally get around to reissues on vinyl that will stay in print awhile. My guess is Rocktober, colored vinyl. One or maybe two at a time depending on if they do the live album.

 

Sign Of The Southern Cross is HEAVY! Awesome song. Both albums are great. Heaven And Hell is more consistent beginning to end. Both Ozzy original 6 LPs and Dio 2 LPs are awesome.

 

Black Sabbath ended for me once Ozzy was sacked..Ozzy was Black Sabbath..The End indeed.

 

I totally get what you're saying - I'm a long time devoted fan of Grand Funk Railroad, and I refuse to recognize anything they do (which is limited to touring) without Mark Farner. Mark was GFR. Full stop. End of story.

However, the two LP's Sabbath cut with Dio (H&H and Mob Rules) have to be considered among the best things Sabbath ever produced. Of course, that just my 2 cents...your mileage may vary.

 

Dio was a great singer but IMO nobody could replace Ozzy...his voice is ingrained...

 

4. Dio did 4 albums.

 

Black Sabbath started for me once Ozzy was sacked. Tony was Black Sabbath...and Dio propelled them to their greatest music.

 

I realize Dio did two more albums at later times. I was referring specifically to Dio Sabbath 1st incarnation.