RSD: Do Flippers Really Hurt Record Store Day? *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by nbakid2000, Apr 22, 2014.

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  1. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge Thread Starter

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Kind of going back to the Paul Weller RSD thread, and the idea that the flippers are hurting the day and spirit of RSD.

    I guess it depends on what the situation is. Either way, flippers are paying the store for the releases they later sell online. The only thing that hurts is the fans, but it doesn't actually hurt the store. The store does make their money regardless of who buys it (flippers vs fans).

    It COULD hurt the store if the notion of flippers turns away those fans who would have bought something else in the store at the same time. However, is this what usually happens? Or do people go to RSD, buy the exclusive titles, and then immediately leave? And if people WOULD buy REGULAR INVENTORY at the store, how are they letting the flippers ruin their day of purchasing stuff that has nothing to do with flippers?

    It seems that flippers only hurt record stores if the people interested (in those titles) weren't going to buy anything else that day. Is the day celebrating the store itself, or has it become exclusively about those RSD titles? Would Paul Weller NOT releasing his material on RSD benefit anyone? Would a lack of release help foot traffic (due to less "competition") or would it turn people away from the doors?

    Are flippers REALLY destroying RSD or are flippers basically a non-issue that just happen to get a lot of bad press?

    EDIT: can one of the gorts change the title to something like "Do Flippers Really Hurt Record Store Day" or something similar along these lines?

    Tough questions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  2. goldwax

    goldwax Rega | Cambridge | Denafrips | Luxman | Dynaudio

    Location:
    US of A
    It all goes back to basic economics--the law of supply and demand. Artists and labels create limited-edition releases to drive up demand. And the imperfections of physical distribution drive up demand even further on some releases, which some people (flippers) will take advantage of. Keep in mind that no one is actually making people pay inflated prices on eBay for these things. The way I look at it is that the flippers are actually the most blameless party in all of this--they are a) taking a risk by shelling out full retail with no guarantee of a return or a profit and b) they are merely trying to make a buck, as are the stores, the artists and the labels, all the way up the production chain. It's these parties that create artificial demand for these products, and fans/"collector scum" (aka "investors") who enable the whole thing by behaving in such a way as to encourage the whole enterprise, by standing in line on RSD and by paying super-high prices on eBay.

    We as fans have the power to say "no thanks" to all of this and let these releases pass us by. Doing so will reduce their prices on eBay etc. and will reduce the incentive for flippers to try to flip. And such fans should also not get on their high horses about other fans who do do whatever they can to grab copies. It's a free market and a free country, and no one's really getting hurt, right? I mean, think of all the evils in this world, and relatively speaking flippers are a pretty mild lot.
     
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  3. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge Thread Starter

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Exactly, the only reason flippers exist is because they know that people will pay the prices they're asking....or the fans will drive up the cost themselves by continuing to outbid each other. Obviously, there's a market/feeding frenzy here that the fans themselves are creating.
     
    Rickenboou likes this.
  4. goldwax

    goldwax Rega | Cambridge | Denafrips | Luxman | Dynaudio

    Location:
    US of A
    Yep.

    The downside to abstaining in droves from RSD is that there will be no incentive for artists and labels to release cool things that they might not otherwise release, and it also may make it difficult for some stores to stay in business, given the enormous shot to the bottom line RSD is for most smaller stores.

    So, would you rather live in a flipperless world where a lot of material that's only feasible in a limited, RSD-type scenario doesn't exist (and possibly one in which there are fewer stores), or would your rather live in a world that has cool releases like these and more stores, but one where flippers will provide a necessary service by being a necessary evil.
     
  5. Brudy

    Brudy Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland
    A Faustian bargain, indeed.

    Personally since I frequent my shops all too regularly, RSD is mostly about the releases. I'd love to see that switched up somehow, to separate getting up ass early and standing in line with the party-like atmosphere that can take place later in the day.
     
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  6. Laibach

    Laibach Forum Resident

    There's something wrong when someone has access to this merchandise and sells it before Record Store Day. That definitely hurts the business of independent stores.
     
  7. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle Forum Resident

    For me it's all about the store. I can't afford to buy music on a monthly basis anymore so RSD is now my annual excuse to visit my local shop and buy a CD/LP or two. Last year I was able to score the Golden Void 7-inch but I have no illusions about getting any of the hyped releases this year. I'll just go in and buy a physical album that's on my ever-growing wish list.
     
  8. If you wanted a RSD item you would or should have bought it on the day.If you missed it or couldn't find the item Ebay simple really the record stores and labels get there cash and the flippers get a little profit for providing a invaluable service for us people that 1.Missed the whole thing. 2.Live in the back end of nowhere 3.Couldn't find the items in there local stores.
     
    Long Live Analog and goldwax like this.
  9. mick_sh

    mick_sh Hackney diamond

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    The Great Record Store Day Swindle. Sad, very sad.
     
  10. goldwax

    goldwax Rega | Cambridge | Denafrips | Luxman | Dynaudio

    Location:
    US of A
    to swinde: to use deception to deprive someone of money or possessions.

    Where's the swindle, mate? Aren't we all consenting adults here?
     
  11. troggy

    troggy Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow

    Location:
    Benton, Illinois
    Yes, it's interesting that some of the same people complaining about the flippers are the ones buying from them.

    The prices on most of these items will level out in as little as a few weeks. People can't wait even that long to buy?
     
    goldwax likes this.
  12. The thing with flippers is there are so many of them there not going to to make a decent amount on there items when you consider initial cost,petrol/transport costs,ect it will work out about the same plus THEY had to get up at 5am and que.

    For instance the Sex Pistols box set was roughly £80 it's on Ebay for £100 it will go down when people don't buy it.And £20 isn't so bad i feel bad for anyone who didn't get the green day album i said it was going to be going for stupid money on ebay and it is,
     
  13. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge Thread Starter

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
  14. cc--

    cc-- Forum Resident

    Location:
    brooklyn
    I suppose if the purpose of Record Store Day is seen as simply to funnel revenue toward local record stores, then it really doesn't matter who picks up the product, a fan or a flipper. But flipping certainly seems to run against the spirit of the event, which I thought was about promoting record store "culture" in a more longstanding sense.
     
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  15. No in reality they are really small part of the equation. You just see a handful of titles marked up really high
     
  16. Eric Weinraub

    Eric Weinraub Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    So, you're saying that if you actually take the time to stand in line, for hours, and the 5 people in front of you scarf up the record you want, that is the optimal power of supply and demand? That helps the store, the artists, and everyone? Wrong. Praying on fans with inflationary tactics has such unintended consequences as stores wanting in on the action and holding back more and more of their RSD stock to flip online. The same thing happened with concert tickets.
     
  17. How are the RSD flippers any different than concert ticket-scalpers?

    Serious question.
     
  18. This **** has happened since the beginning of capitalism. and I still believe it's still a small %
     
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  19. xTraPlaylists

    xTraPlaylists I bring order to chaos.

    Location:
    *******, *******
    Shhhhh. Don't reveal the actual truth of what's going on!
    It's bitching time on the old ranch and some people gotta get their bitch on. :rant:
     
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  20. xTraPlaylists

    xTraPlaylists I bring order to chaos.

    Location:
    *******, *******
    It's most assuredly a tiny fraction. The raw data backs it up. But no one wants to hear that.:shrug:
     
    Mazzy likes this.
  21. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge Thread Starter

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Well, that fits into the whole "are they there for the RSD titles ONLY or are they buying store inventory" thing.
     
  22. edb15

    edb15 Senior Member

    Location:
    new york
    Flippers are the key to Record Store Day. Ordering all that inventory would be too big a risk for stores if it weren't for the flippers who come in and take their stock immediately. The flippers then take the risk that what they buy will be profitable--though much of it won't. Without 'em, many smaller stores would order a lot less.

    Where it gets tough is when certain releases are just too limited and fans don't have an honest shot, like the REM thing this year. But hey, I just nabbed the Bardo Pond ltd. 200 off a shelf this afternoon, plus the Pinback (and left a copy in the bins), and left a Joy Division in the racks.

    I've found that if you are patient, you can get all but a few hot titles within 10% of list. Most titles fetch exagerrated prices for a day or three then slowly fall.

    In other words, it is the irrational fans who drive the whole flipping business.
     
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  23. happydeathman

    happydeathman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Yeah if buyers had the patience to wait it out for a few weeks, the prices wouldn't be so exorbitant.
     
  24. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    I don't participate because of the focus on vinyl but I did notice sign postings on the major store chain in the area limiting purchases to one title per person. I assume they noticed that certain people were gobbling up titles in the past.
     
    ian christopher likes this.
  25. farmingdad

    farmingdad Forum Resident

    Location:
    albany, oregon
    Seems like the government should get involved.
     
    krlpuretone, xTraPlaylists and Paully like this.
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