Rush: Clockwork angels gets worse with each listen.

You are missing the point. The point being that production means everything, and whether a song is good is very much in part dependent on how creatively and appropriately it is arranged, produced, and mixed. Quality is about all the aspects.
Dynamics, excitement, those are elements that are greatly dependent on the things I stated. Mood and atmosphere as well.

Melodies are greatly dependent on their atmosphere, their environment, for effect.

That is why "Wonderful World" by Satchmo can have a beautifully emotional element because of wonderful arrangement and production or sound like a harsh lifeless mess that seems to lack melody when done by some 90s group whose name I don't even remember.

 

I think it was the production values that really lost its way, specifically on Vapor Trails and Clockwork. I think Snakes and Arrows is a better album than both of them. Three instrumentals and great acoustic Lifeson work on that one.

 

I agree with you 100% on that one. Well said.

 

Simply the most uninformed quote on music ever. For centuries people listened to and loved music without any recording production involved.

The best production in the world can't save a bad song. That's just a fact.

Of course the development of music production can enhance music and it did in the modern era but that's not the same thing. Many artists in the modern era have used the studio as almost like another instrument......quite clearly Sgt Pepper or Pet Sounds would be different animals with the enhancement of the studio or indeed obviously DSOM but everyone of those albums has fantastic writing at the core. No songs no masterpiece.

Just about every Rush fan will agree on the quality of albums up until Moving Pictures....their production developed for sure but a lot of the albums were very very simply recorded....the vast majority of Rush fans simply don't agree on CA and many I've read in the main UK fan web site are quite rightly pretty unimpressed....very few focus on the production but more on the concept and the SONGS...

You need to remember not everyone is an audiophile....and people DO make judgements on music listening to it on phones, iPod systems or minor systems-they have had a lifetime of enjoying music without caring about going up the ladder......those people are judging music from a consistent viewpoint therefore when a majority say they really don't like CA they are doing so without worrying too much about the production.

On a big system or a revealing system to it's owner then modern productions can be an issue as I stated there are a few great records from last year that don't work well on a big system but the music is still very well written.

What you are doing is taking a very individual view and personal preference and saying this is effecting other people......the reality is it isn't.

 

Clockwork Angels seems to be the marmite album (although maybe that extends to latter day era).

I've simple systems. Most albums getting cranked out in the car. I love Clockwork Angels. Yes, its thick and dense, but that appeals to me (I like Iommi (prefer the latter day Fused and The Devil You Know sound than 13) and Stoner Rock) but the riffs and songs on CA work for me. No issue with the lyrics or the vocal melodies. Their best album since Snakes And Arrows lol - or Counterparts.

 

I don't think it's a terrible record and I think initially it did seem very promising, it just doesn't stand up to repeated listens......as the title says above.

I do think it's better than some post 80's albums but I also agree with the poster who suggests Snakes And Arrows is at least the equal of it.

I actually do think the producers in recent years are at fault but that's as much as being the inhouse Quality Control guy strong enough to say to his employers...the songs aren't good enough...you are getting there but it needs tightened up and edited....worth noting too the classic album length of the 60's-80's did not require the length of recording bands seem to think we need since CD became the form.

A bit of editing and more focus imo and CA could have been a really good record but I don't think history will look back on it well........

 

I like The Garden better...especially live.

That said, I don't think there's a better commercially released version of Closer to the Heart out there than the one on disc one of Different Stages.

 

I just finished the novelization of Clockwork Angels and that really helped me enjoy the album a lot more. If you can get past the audio issues and want to have a greater appreciation of the story, check the book out from the library. My attitude toward the concept is much better now.

 

I never liked it.

 

But bad production can ruin a good song.

 

The last good production on a Rush album was Counterparts imo. You can hear every instrument and separation on that album. The mix is great and the drums sound great. Neil's last great drum sound in record. Geddy's bass sounds awesome on that record as well.

 

I like the music quite a bit, but the production ruins it for me. I'm not even that big of an audiophile, but the album is nearly unlistenable to me. The first time I listened to the album, I though it was terrible and just a bunch of noise. Later I realized it was the sound quality. Now I like the music, but I rarely listen to it.

 

"Clockwork Angels" is in my top 5-6 Rush albums. I think "Clockwork Angels" and "Snakes and Arrows" are just off the charts for a band so deep into its career. Agree the production on Clockwork Angels is far from ideal but it's good enough for me to enjoy the music.

 

I like nearly every song on the album, but can only listen to 2 songs at a time due to the "Wall Of Sound" approach used. I get a headache quickly and also lose interest. I have only listened to it fully through 1 time and felt tortured by the mid point. (this from someone who tends to listen to full albums daily). I can't remember the last time I listened to this on either of my home systems or through my headphone DAC. I can tolerate it only in my car.

 

This is one of the very few albums that I find very hard to listen to, in any context, because the sound is so bloody awful. I suspect there are some promising songs in there somewhere.

And it is not just the usual 'compression complaint'. I have no problem listening to Radiohead's latest (DR4 I believe!) but CA just sounds like an utter mess to me. Ymmv obvs.

 

I can finally listen to S&A with the high res release, which has decent mastering. It still isn't a great production, but it's listenable.

I hope someday CA gets a decent mastering. I have a needledrop (gave up on the cd long ago) but it's not great either.

Really, Rush needs a great producer and engineer again. I don't think Nick R. is either of those.

 

To be honest I've never really loved it. It's a bit over long, the songs in the middle just mesh together in one huge medley. Sonically it is very clustered and dence, kind of the opposite of what Snakes. To this day really love that album several duff tracks not withstanding.

From CA I really love

Caravan
Seven Cities
Headlong Flight
The Wreckers
The Garden
BU2B

If that was the album it would be perfect. It's simply raises the question just because you have 80 minutes to put on a CD should you actually put that much music on it?? That is a question we have been asking ourselves for a long time.

 

I'm a huge Rush fan overall, but neither Snakes & Arrows nor Clockwork Angels ever clicked with me.

On the other hand, because of this, and because they're relatively new, I've not given either a ton of spins yet. Maybe they'll grow on me eventually, but I don't know. The stylistic turn they took with Vapor Trails is probably my least favorite for them, although Vapor Trails did wind up clicking with me well enough. But in Vapor Trails' case, it's not like it took a long time or a bunch of spins for me to start to dig it.

 

Are you sure he wasn't primarily talking about his lyrics in that? I'd agree with him that in the 80s and beyond, he became a much, much better lyricist. With respect to Peart's opinion about his lyrics, though, a lot of it is that he isn't so fond of his heavily Ayn Rand-influenced stuff now (which is why he'd not pick, say, Permanent Waves as a turning point--that still had some heavy Rand influences).

At any rate, I don't agree with you about their later material, and I think that over time I've come to slightly prefer their more pop-oriented period, but I love the early stuff musically, too. (And I think there are some good and some fun lyrics in the early stuff as well, even if Peart regrets some of them.)

 

I think "Snakes & Arrows" just might be in my Top 5 by them; that's how much I think of it.
A late career highlight!

It's the album that got me back into Rush (along with the documentary "Beyond The Lighted Stage") and I'd been out of the game with them since 1991.

 

No, he's just wrong.

 

I really hope Audio Fidelity gets a crack at this one!

 

I want to point out I wound up loving this album. The melodies were there after all and crept up on me.

 

I've loved Clockwork Angels from release day onward. It resonates with me despite a mix that is not all it could and should be vis-a-vis clarity and dynamics.

In part, yeah, but probably more for overambitious storytelling elements in those days.

Neil's even called the early albums "kindergarten" but in the vast majority of interviews, drum videos, etc, he specifies the music in that regard - learning how to play this or that odd meter and feeling that they had to make that technical ability apparent. Moving Pictures is the fullest streamline of their prog-prowess into shorter songs, and I guess that's why he singles it out, though Permanent Waves did that as well with at least half the tracks, and Peart has praised that album many times. Lyrically, Waves and Pictures bear the same degrees of influence/aspiration, and a certain one never diminished - cf. Roll the Bones, Angels, Counterparts.

Back to Clockwork Angels, it's still a great album to me, even if Hemispheres sounds 10x better. If "The Garden" remains their finale, it's perfect.