SACD...Are You Going For It?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KBanya, Mar 4, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    But that Pioneer player converts the DSD bit-stream to PCM. I don't know about anyone else, but a universal player that does that is out in my books. What's the point of that? First of all, I feel the purity of the signal should be of utmost importance, whether it be PCM remaining PCM or DSD remaining DSD, until it is finally converted to analogue. What the heck is the point of adding an extra conversion step? It also concerns me that people will buy these players and then make judgements on SACDs based on hearing sound that was converted from DSD to PCM and then to analogue. Ridiculous if you ask me. This has always been my concern about so-called 'universal' players.
     
  2. tony2v

    tony2v Forum Resident

    I didn't vote because there wasn't an option that fit my position. I added a SACD player to complement my CD and vinyl sources. To me it's just another source. I play my SACDs in the car from cassettes made from Nak deck. Who listens critically in the car? I just want the music to rock too!
     
  3. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    I'll wait until Pioneer claims this, not the audio press. I'm interested in one of the Pioneer Elite multi-players (DV-45A). If it does convert to PCM then I, too, would not buy it. But I'd rather hear this from Pioneer than trust what is at best second hand information. (And nobody mentioned if this is via the digital output, or analog, or both. It's possible DSD may be converted to analog, but converted to PCM for the digital outputs.)

    Another reason for me to hold off buying a player. I can get this DV-45A rather cheap ($425 with shipping--not a bad deal IMHO).

    BTW, just what is up with that highfidelityreview.com website? Anytime I visit, it slows my browser to a crawl. They're running some kind of applet, I'll bet. Looks like a tweak to Proxomitron is in order...
     
  4. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    I totally agree. This practice of compromising a DSD signal by down converting it to PCM is total Crap!!! It's like driving a Ferrari in a school zone... well, maybe not that extreme but it dinks me off. These people are going out of their way to buy what they think is a true SACD player and they get something that makes SACDs sound no better than DVD-A's. Bogus bogus bogus!

    I feel better now. Thanks.
     
  5. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    My preference is still with vinyl. I only buy CD's if it's a title I must have.
    If the price for SACD's come down and I can make personal copies, perhaps I will take the plunge. I really feel that the music industry is making a poor decision with all this copy protect crap. We, as consumers should be able to make personal copies to enjoy in our cars, computers, and home.
    Like vinyl, SACD cannot be played in a car stereo. I'm sure at some point there will be car units available, but at what pricepoint. At least I can make copies of my vinyl onto CD-R.
    There are also very few discs that I would want, not a great variety to choose from yet. I feel the same about DVD-Audio.
     
  6. HeavyDistortion

    HeavyDistortion Senior Member

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I did not cast a vote either; I can play CDs, SACDs and DVD-A's, and will probably buy the best sounding disc available, no matter what format it is on.




    Ed Hurdle
    HeavyDistortion
     
  7. Michael St. Clair

    Michael St. Clair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Funkytown
    The Yamaha DVD-S2300 plays both SACD and DVD-A and has gotten very high marks and has been compared favorably to Sony ES models by some. I believe it is considered substantially better than the Pioneers. I haven't heard a final word on PCM conversion for this model, which I hope to get my hands on in the next few weeks.
     
  8. Bobo U2

    Bobo U2 Active Member

    Location:
    The Bronx
    It is amazing to me how "anal" some SACD people are. Do you think someone who buys the DVDA/SACD player that cost under 3 bills is an "audiophile"? No, they are not....I wish I could afford the systems some of you have but right now that is impossible. The majority of the buyer's who will purchase the new Pioneer will be a person like me, Someone who knows that DVDA/SACD sounds better than CD, gives us a chance to hear an album in surround. Do you want SACD to succeed?? Or is it you want it to stay in that little niche where record companies will not support the format? People like me are what you need!! So when you post such negative comments about new players that don't meet your critical judgment you are doing damage. Will I be able to really tell a big difference in the sound? Probably not....but I will have a player that will allow me and others to buy more SACD/DVDA's and in turn the record companies will take notice and throw more titles out in the market. Isn't that the idea?? And to those who wish ill on ether DVD-A or SACD I'll never understand you.... :shake:
     
  9. KBanya

    KBanya Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    CT
    Damn good point! Myself, I am totally ignorant to this fact. When the time comes to possibly buy a SACD player, can I consult with you? Seriously!!
     
  10. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    I don't think anyone here is wishing the 2 formats a short painful death, the opinions I've read state that there aren't enough titles, or they're waiting for a universal player, or that they, including myself are quite happy with vinyl and redbook Cd, what's wrong with that? We're all entitled to our opinions. :)
     
  11. Bobo U2

    Bobo U2 Active Member

    Location:
    The Bronx
    Nothing wrong with that.....:cool:
    Maybe i'm jealous that I don't have a kick-ass system and that's why I went on my mini rant. I'm hooked on surround mixes and I want both formats to thrive....:thumbsup:
     
  12. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Me too, Bobou2! Give me my high res!
     
  13. Hwyengr

    Hwyengr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    You can do this with SACD too. Just plug the analog outs into whatever you're hooking the turntable into.

    Jeremy
     
  14. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    I'd feel better if I knew for a fact which combination players downconverted DSD to PCM, or not...and to which outputs (analog, digital, or both). I think the manufacturers may be reluctant to tell us, but they are ultimately the ones who should answer this for us.

    For those who are less discerning about these things, the combination players are a good solution. For me...would I ever hear a difference? I won't know unless I can hear both formats the way they were intended!

    I just don't want to wind up buying something I'll regret.
     
  15. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    I've always been able to discern the difference between high res PCM and DSD. I feel there's that much of a difference. High res PCM is good but DSD has always sounded better to me. Just one man's observations.:)

    But let's face it, both are better than CD and that's a step in the right direction. :thumbsup:
     
  16. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    Uh, excuse me but, if you can make copies of vinyl onto CD-R what's stopping you from making copies of SACD's onto CD-R's? It's called the sound in jack, the same one you use to transfer those LPs over. We are talking about for use in car here right? Any loss of fidelity would be negligible, especially if you plan on playing it back in a car or, dare I say it, 'boom-box'.
     
  17. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    Look, it has nothing to do with wanting a format to succeed or fail. It's just that it is unnecessary for them to make the signal go through an extra conversion to shave a few dollars off of the price. As for 'audiophiles' not buying them, I don't know about that. There are a lot of folks on this here board who own the Sony 775, which they purchased for around maybe $150 and it doesn't do unnecessary conversions.
     
  18. Marc Pool

    Marc Pool New Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I have had my player for about 13 months now. And I'm very happy with it. If have all but stopped buying redbook. During the last 13 months I bought about 50 SACDs and only 3 CDs.
    So now I own about 800 to 900 cd's and 50 SACD's, but 80% of the time I tend to listen to SACD.
     
  19. LesPaul666

    LesPaul666 Mr Markie - The Rock And Roll Snarkie

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Honestly, The only SACD's I've heard at all were the Stones' ABKCO remasters, which I've bought the whole collection. Comparing the CD layer with the SACD one, I was really quite blown away by the difference. The player I have is a Sony 777ES. Based on this, and countless arguments about sampling rate and bit depth(most people said I was crazy), I knew that DSD would sound great. To me it's like listening to a first generation master tape, or a really good vinyl album. All of the bad digital artifacts are GONE. The soundstage is really deep, airy and focused, with no fizzy 44.1khz crap, and the analog "bloom" is there. These Stones' sacd's are not pefect, sometimes a little dry at times, but better than any vinyl or cd versions I've ever heard. Beggar's Banquet was the biggest difference. Give that one a listen. I plan on getting the Hoffmann mastered CCR sacd's ASAP. I plan to "Go For" SACD with an open wallet and ears. To me it sounds the way it should.
     
  20. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    Hey there, LesPaul666. Welcome to the forums. I'me sure everyone here is glad you decided to post - and what a first post it it was. You instantly touched on some insanely hot topics around these here parts. Do a search on the forums on some of things you commented on and you'll discover what I mean.

    BTW, nice nickname. Do you actually play and/or own a Les Paul? If so, what kind? I've got a Les Paul. PM me if you like so we don't throw this whole thread way off topic.
     
  21. cliff barua

    cliff barua New Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    OK, Gary, as a fellow Torontonian, I feel your pain with the high prices. But if you look around, you can find SACD's locally that are cheaper than online or the US (at least if you can find the title). Most SACD's are very reasonably priced (especially compared to the CD prices for MSFL and DCC). I can even find the Sony stereo-only SACD titles for less than what DCC or MSFL ever was around here (and that's 2003 dollars versus mid-90's dollars). And a few of the more expensive SACD's (Steve's CCR discs and some MSFL discs) are worth the cost for quality (and they're hybrid to boot). If you consider SACD and DVD-A "audiophile", then they're actually much cheaper than they're brethren in vinyl, DCC CD or MSFL CD (when they were available). The DCC CD's were $40 CDN locally. SACD's are a bit more than half that (as long as you avoid HMV and Sam's).

    I know it's a not a well considered title in this Forum but I bought the "My Generation" SACD for $28.99 CDN last week, while the redbook Deluxe Edition sold for $39.99 CDN. Forget the savings, for the sound alone I'll take the SACD every time. I do buy the odd redbook but I'm mostly focused on SACD and DVD-A reissues of my favourite "old" tiltles (pre-1985).

    Cliff
     
  22. Shakey

    Shakey New Member

    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    I didn't vote, is it a given that SACD is going to be the defacto standard for Hi-Rez playback? No chance for DVD 24/96 or DVD-A, if they are different, I don't know. I really never paid attention becaused I never really bought into digital in any form, at least not as much as I have bought into analog/vinyl.
     
  23. cliff barua

    cliff barua New Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Shakey,
    It's not a given. You'll find that a lot of members here are bigger fans of SACD because of its ease of use (operates the same way as a CD), while DVD-A requires switching your TV on to access the different mixes (or you can play around with the "Group" function). Also, it seems that more people here have SACD hardware (relative to DVD-A hardware), so obviously they're pulling for it for that reason as well. I have both formats and enjoy them for different reasons (sound is of the same fidelity to ME). SACD is easier to use but some of the visual extras on DVD-A's are neat as well.

    Cliff
     
  24. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Well, I've always heard SACD as sounding better than high res PCM. It's not an ease of use consideration at all. 24/96 has never sounded as good as DSD to me.
     
  25. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for pointing that out so nicely. I want to be able to make a copy without any loss of resolution, how can I do that? Please don't ask why I would want to do that. :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine