SACD...Are You Going For It?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KBanya, Mar 4, 2003.

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  1. Michael St. Clair

    Michael St. Clair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Funkytown
    You can't copy a DVD-A or SACD at full resolution, they have copy protection which thankfully has not been broken.

    Some DVD players will downres the high-res stereo to something like 16/48 via the digital outputs, you can capture that to a disc with the right equipment.
     
  2. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Originally posted by mikey5967
    >> Im going to buy an "everything player" when one comes out with great sound quality and at a good price. <<

    Why? Jack of all trades = master of none.

    >> As far as SACd goes, I dont hold out much hope for it ever really catching on......99% of the people out there dont CARE about the improved sonics and they sure as hell arent gonna pay 20$ for SACD when the Cd title is 10$. <<

    You're missing the point of hybrid SACDs. Try *not* to buy the SACD version of the ABKCO Stones titles, soon the Dylan Columbias and DSOTM. It's called transparent adoption and as hybrid production capacity ramps up, the masses will be adopting SACD regardless of whether they're conscious of it. For those of us who do care about sound quality, it's a no-brainer. SACD is the way to go. I don't know where you're getting your $20 figure. I never buy SACDs for that price anymore. I just got the five original Police titles on SACD for $13.99 each (and I believe they're available for even less). Prices will continue to fall on SACDs and there is nothing innate about the technology that is more expensive than CD.

    >> I think the folks backing SACd blew it by not making multi channel a standard for SACD. <<

    The capacity for mch is standard. It's up to the label/producer as to whether to include a multichannel mix. Don't spend too much time sitting on the sidelines while the rest of us are enjoying the game!
     
  3. Taurus

    Taurus Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    This is just paranoid audiophile b.s.

    It 's not like an old console stereo where they crammed in a turntable, amplifier, speakers and a tape deck. It's just another integrated circuit chip--big deal.

    [T]
     
  4. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Are you aware that, after conversion, DSD requires noise shaping, PCM requires digital filters. In case you are totally in the dark, noise shaping and filtering are vastly different technologies.

    Cookie cutter electronics manufacturers cut corners and you rush out and buy without listening. Then you wonder why audiophiles have different opinions. . .usually it's because they do their homework.
     
  5. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    I recall you had done some careful listening in a studio environment...so let's just say it's a borrowed pair of "trusted ears" I'm relying on here. ;)

    I don't think it's technologically impossible for a combination player to do all the disc formats out there properly. I'm in no rush--I'll wait for it, and buy it when it's ready. It's just cheaper for a mass-market product to convert things to one format and send it on its way. I just do NOT want a CD changer, an SACD player, DVD-A/V player all fighting for a single input on my preamp. It's a 12cm disc--I only want one player for all of them. Yeah, I'm picky. ;)
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    That's the only thing that bothers me about the new hi-res formats. I also make tons of personal compilations.
     
  7. Taurus

    Taurus Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    If a moderator wants to move this post I'll understand. [T]

    Yesman:

    When you say you heard a difference between DSD and hi-res PCM, which hi-res did you listen to--96kHz/24bit or 192kHz/24bit?

    This is some of the reason for my doubts about DSD's sonic faithfulness:
    DSD's fuzzy wave action

    Thanks.

    [T]
     
  8. Michael St. Clair

    Michael St. Clair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Funkytown
    My understanding is that the Yamaha DVD-S2300 uses completely separate signal paths for PCM and DSD.

    This does not guarantee no PCM conversion if you are using bass management. In fact, some suspect that the Sony 775 does do PCM conversion if using bass management.
     
  9. Taurus

    Taurus Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    A player could use analog bass management, i.e. a simplified version of Outlaw's ICBM component (analog circuits can be controlled by digital-based systems with no harmful interference).

    I still don't know why more players don't use those full-featured b.m. chips from Analog Devices that the Denon 9000 & 3800 players use.

    [T]
     
  10. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    That was my point in my original post on this thread. I also like to make compilation discs, SACD will not allow that without loss of resolution.
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I want to see the copy protection broken.
     
  12. Mattb

    Mattb Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Me as well, I would also like to see car and portable SACD players. I can playback DVD-A on the PC, SACD can't be done yet. I wonder if DVD-A will be copyable first?
     
  13. LesPaul666

    LesPaul666 Mr Markie - The Rock And Roll Snarkie

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey, you can always copy them there SACD's to a good(and I mean GOOD) analog reel to reel or cassette deck, ya know...By the way, The new Police SACD's sound insanely incredible...
     
  14. Mattb

    Mattb Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    That is true, but I do not have reel to reel or cassette in my car! :D
     
  15. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville

    I have heard both 24/96 and 24/192 compared to DSD several times at several mastering studios and at AES (audio engineering society) conventions. The differences are very apparent when doing direct comparisons.
     
  16. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    Nothing less less than a indepenently dedicated cd player and the same for sacd would have any interest to me. Additionally, those in ears that I trust prefer sacd single layer vs hybrid. No we are not picky, just enthusiasts that have been around the block more than a few times.
     
  17. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    And they should, as this is the way the vinyl and the master tapes sound. The 95 cd's also sound very good. So this is proof of nothing other than the quality of the original source. Has nothing to do with DSD.
     
  18. I buy all 3 formats, got 'Regatta' on SACD, 'Harvest' on DVD-A, and Ramones- 'All this . .Vol 2' and Cramps - 'Stay Sick' as cd's all this week.

    I am irritated that the only Police hybrid disk is the singles collection I bought last year as a DTS disk. I am NOT buying it again, though I do believe that the SACD likely sounds warmer.

    The ONLY warm sounding DTS or DVD-A disk I have is 'Harvest'. The 96k stereo track on 'Night At The Opera' pales next to either Steve's or the MoFi gold cd's. So, even the high res stuff is not being mastered near potential.

    The DVD-A 4-channel mix on 'Bucky Pizzareli Swings Live' is very impressive, but warm does not describe it.

    BTW, I second the nomination that the Police SACD's are well done. Regatta sounds much better than my orig. silver label A&M vinyl.
     
  19. Ralpho

    Ralpho Senior Member

    Location:
    CA
    DITTO! Until then . . . I'm stickin' with "redbook":thumbsup:
     
  20. Taurus

    Taurus Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Thomoz: When you use the word "warm", do you mean:

    1) not harsh, but still detailed

    or

    2) depressed high frequencies

    Thanks.

    [T]
     
  21. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    Well, some might argue that making a vinyl transfer to CD-R results in a loss of resolution too so....take your pick. :)
     
  22. Bruce Burgess

    Bruce Burgess Senior Member

    Location:
    Hamilton, Canada
    I'm sticking with red books CDs, not because I think SACD's a bad product but because I have very little confidence that it will survive.

    First of all, the marketing of this format is virtually non-existent. Very few people outside of this site have even heard of SACD let alone heard it. That is hardly surprising considering that you rarely see SACD players or DVD players with SACD capability advertised or promoted.

    Secondly, the majority of people seem quite satisfied with regular CDs, which sound decent and can be played on walkmans, boom boxes, computers or car stereos.

    If Sony wants this format to survive even in a niche market, they'd better get off their butts and start promoting it. For the life of me, I can't understand why they would spend millions of dollars developing a new product and not bother promoting it.
     
  23. Rick Deschaine

    Rick Deschaine New Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I wanted to add some more comments to an earlier post I made in this thread.

    Most of the SACDs I buy are of older music. The majority of new music that's grabbing my attention now is on smaller independant labels like Bloodshot Records to name one. I doubt that anytime soon they are going to be releasing anything on SACD or DVD-A.

    So, there is no way I am only going to be buying SACD only.

    Can you imagine not owning Neko Case's - Blacklisted? :love:

    Later, Rick
     
  24. GoldenBoy

    GoldenBoy Purple People Eater

    Location:
    US
    A great album that would be excellent on SACD, and would be wonderful in multichannel too. :love:
     
  25. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    It'll happen...just give it time. DVD's region encoding and Macrovision encoding were broken years ago. Countless software programs (even MS Windows XP) have been cracked by hackers. It may take awhile if the protection is tougher to crack, but it can be done.

    I don't condone stealing music or using the "sharing" services, but there two great reasons why I want full access to the music I buy:

    1. One of my favorite pastimes lately is making compilations. Just did a 35-track early Beatles comp last night...all my favorites, segued together like a radio program. Good fun, and it only cost me a half hour and a 22-cent blank CD!

    2. If it's a disc that is rare and/or irreplaceable, I WANT to be able to record my own copy, and play the copy. The way CDs bounce around this house between my various systems, I feel much safer playing a 22-cent disposable copy instead of a CD I shelled out $30 for. And if it's out of print, I almost hate to take it out of the jewel case!

    Those in the industry who are so deathly paranoid of all this need to realize that we're ALL not a bunch of pimply teens making millions of illegal copies of the latest Eminem CD...
     
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