SACD Players Under $2000 With Best Redbook Sound

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DennisF, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Whilst he says he could make a good case for 205 SQ, I certainly can not. On Audio Asylum Charles Hansen Ayre calls Oppo junk
     
  2. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    It's the Internet. You can find anything that fits your view.

    If Chuck's view is that, then more fool you for spending £1400 on your failed project and apart from him talking out his hat. Buyer's Remorse cuts no ice here.

    Incidentally, I'll take a @Kal Rubinson view over someone with an axe to grind over anything that isn't a Sony. Sorry, but my goodwill beans ran out today.
     
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  3. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    Once again you're being selective to further your tireless promoting of old Sony products. It's more accurate to say that Charles doesn't believe that the Oppo is capable of "high end" performance (so he therefore calls it "junk"), and that's not surprising given that Charles is comparing it to players costing multiple thousands more, including his own players based off of the Oppo base architecture (and that he mat be biased due to what appears to be his characterization of questionable practices on Oppo's part when dealing with them). Does the Oppo give good performance for its price? I would guess so, but I've only heard the 105, which I think gives good value but is not my cup of tea. Does the Oppo (or the Sony 5400es for that matter) compare to the old Ayre C-5xeMP? In no way shape or form, as it far surpasses both those players in a dedicated two-channel system. (And now I'll do your obligatory follow-up for you: But the 5400 in 5.1 is the best thing man has ever invented, blah, blah, blah.)

    John K.
     
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  4. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    Maybe it depends on the type of music you usually listen too? In my own case, I prefer the Marantz 8004 for opera, classical, and acoustic, but will switch to my Denon 3910 for rock and jazz, which the OPPO also excels at, especially in SACD playback.
     
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  5. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    I used to have the Denon 3930 a few years ago. Great player. Built like a tank but lovely sound across the board with all genres.

    I think, mostly, that it's the speakers we use that defines the main characteristics of the eventual sound we hear.
     
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  6. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    Your opinion here on SH is of no value to many as your posts are so predictable its ridiculous :rolleyes:. I can honestly say that I highly doubt you even owned the 205 or that it was ever in your system. Same for any other Oppo player you have claimed to own. You posted awhile back that you had issues with the 103 you "owned" and that Oppo couldn't fix them. When I asked you what those issues were you never responded.

    Your posts in recent weeks confirm that you've never had the 205 in your system. All one has to do is look back in your posts to see that. You posted that your neighbor bought a 205 and you were going to compare it to your Sony 5400ES. Then a few days later you post that you bought the 205 with no further mention of your neighbor. This after posting numerous times that you'd never buy an Oppo or Cambridge Audio player ever again. Then you post that you put 350 hours of "burn in" on a player you "owned" less than ten days. That time is factored on when you said you "bought" the 205. Another factor that leads me to not believe you never owned the 205 is that you're "selling" it instead of returning it as you've certainly owned it less than 30 days which is the normal return period.

    Why don't move on to another forum and spread your anti-Oppo BS as it's run it's course here IMO.
     
  7. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Active Member

    Location:
    London
    I got a discount on the 205 so could not return it. I was misled by the reviews.
     
  8. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    BS.

    You paid RRP (or the equivalent of), by your own posts, so they either saw you coming, or you bought in person (as opposed to online when you'd have right to return in 14 days) and they're not willing to swap. Buyer's Remorse.
     
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  9. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    The point that "thegage" makes about the old Ayer in #153 rings true to me. What has always impressed me about the OPPO players is how many things they do extremely well.
     
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  10. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    Actually, he is paraphrasing me incorrectly. He rarely makes proper quotations.
     
  11. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    For red book I would suggest a Cambridge CXC and a £300 DAC such as Beresford or the new baby Chord. About half cost of Marantz. Then buy Oppo or similar for hi-res disc formats.
     
  12. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    Total BS :rolleyes:! Now it's someone else's fault that you "bought" the 205, priceless. You even referenced a review on Audio Asylum where you claim Charles Hansen calls Oppo players junk. So if you read that review then it was totally your fault and nobody else's for "buying" the 205. By the way how do you consider full MSRP a discount? Why don't you give it up and troll on some other forum. It's really sad the length people go to get attention in this day and age ;)!

    So can we expect to see a listing for "your" 205 in the classifieds here on SH? Or will your neighbor buy it from you as he could probably use a second 205 to along with his 203 :D.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  13. RolandG

    RolandG Forum Resident

    He claims to have already sold it.

    I'm still enjoying my 105, especially with its ability to rip SACDs. 4k in the 205 is of no interest to me (yet). I might wait for the 305, or whatever it may be called, to see if it's my next player. The only thing I'm missing is gapless play when used as a DLNA renderer, but that's a minor point.
     
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  14. Dream On

    Dream On Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I highly recommend the Denon DCD-A100 if you can find one on the used market. Think it used to retail for $2,500. Bought mine used and it's operated flawlessly. It's a big player (need some room on your shelf) and they really overbuilt this thing - 31 pounds. 32 bit DAC, anti-vibration on the disc mechanism. The disc tray isn't some cheap piece of plastic and it glides smoothly and confidently. The sound is superb. Maybe CD only players have better SQ, I don't know, but I'd doubt that as a rule based on this player. It is 2017 after all. I am pretty sure a player can be designed that maximizes the performance of both CDs and SACDs.

    Now, when you throw in playback of many other formats (BR, DVD, DVD-A), like on a universal, then I can see that there is too much to compensate for and sound quality might take a hit. I have tried universals from Oppo, Denon, Arcam, and Cambridge, and they are lacking in stereo music playback. For that I definitely want a music only player. I currently have an Oppo 93 but it is strictly for HT use.
     
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  15. jeffmackwood

    jeffmackwood New Member

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Call me confused, but if the original question was what would you recommend that can play SACD and CD, and be under $2,000, and "sound" great, and assuming the connection is to a relatively modern pre/pro, integrated amp, or receiver, then why not just buy an inexpensive Blu-ray/CD player with HDMI output? Not promoting any brand but there's a bunch under $100 that will do the trick - and the ones and zeroes they output will be (and sound) the same as with any other device. Then let the receiving device do the grunt work.

    Since the OP did not specify a receiving device, and if that device is expecting only a stereo RCA-fed signal, THEN the conversation can turn to more expensive players.

    Jeff Mackwood
     
  16. bradleyc

    bradleyc Active Member

    Location:
    Midwest
    Music Direct has Marantz SA-8005 on close out for $899, could be very satisfying purchase for that price! Oops, just saw this post on previous page, but worth repeating.
     
  17. Those Denon models had a fantastic analytical sound for CD and DVD-Audio. I found their SACD playback fine but more ordinary.
     
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  18. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    When I upgraded to the Cambridge from a Denon 3910 it was like night and day. Cambridge discontinued it and probably that's why I was able to buy it for 1100.

    I just added a Cary DAC 200TS and that brought the quality way way up. I'm in digital nirvana :)
     
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  19. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    I've been on a stereo SACD and XRCD listening binge today :).

    Patricia Barber - Nightclub MFSL SACD
    Gene Ammons - Boss Tenor XRCD
    Bill Evans - Waltz For Debby XRCD
    Santana - Abraxas MOFI SACD
    Stevie Ray Vaughan - The Sky Is Crying APO SACD
    James Gang - James Gang Rides Again MOFI SACD
    Doobie Brothers - What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits MOFI SACD (excellent SQ!)

    Playback with an Oppo 105D with the balanced outputs to an Emotiva XMC-1 set to Reference Stereo mode. I'm finding that the 105D sounds excellent with a nice analog feel to it and is not harsh or bright at all. The 105D is not everyone's cup of tea and I certainly respect that (those that have actually owned one ;)). But I'm very happy with my listening session today. If I can find a Sony 5400ES at a decent price I'll definitely grab one to compare to the 105D.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  20. JediJoker7169

    JediJoker7169 Well-Known Member

    One of my reference discs. Extremely musical from start to finish. I could live in that sound. Rob LoVerde really hit this one out of the park (and he did a great job on the other Doobies titles, too).
     
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  21. MikeJedi

    MikeJedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas

    That's exactly how I feel about my 105D ! Love the analog feel of the sound ! That Santana SACD is really amazing in it IMO .. ;)
     
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  22. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    It's now one of my reference discs for sure :)! You put it quite well when you say "I could live in that sound". I totally agree with that assessment!
     
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  23. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    I'm glad to see another 105D fan :). I really enjoyed listening to the Abraxas MOFI SACD!
     
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  24. I finally joined the SACD playback club a month ago. Prior to that I had never owned any equipment capable of playing the DSD layer of an SACD.

    My SACD playback is a Pioneer BDP-80FD that I use to rip SACD discs. Playback is a Windows laptop running JRiver Media Center connected to a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC. I use JRiver to play the DSD files and it converts the DSD to PCM since the Schiit DAC is PCM only. The Schiit Gungnir Multibit is one of the best DACs for Redbook playback for under $2K. If you want one of the best DACs for Redbook that can also do high-res 192 kHz for under $2K, then the Schiit Gungnir Multibit is what you want (IMHO).

    DSD converted to PCM and played on the Schiit DAC sounds very good. I do prefer good pure PCM high-res recordings to DSD converted to PCM. However DSD converted to PCM on that DAC does sound better than the Redbook layer. When given the choice I'll pick listening to the DSD layer over listening to the Redbook layer of an SACD because the DSD layer manages to have that high-res style of sound, similar to how high-res sounds better than Redbook. I do find that DSD converted to PCM does sound a little bit like the soundstage is full of fog that slightly diffracts the imaging. The imaging loses a little bit of focus that pure high-res PCM can have. Similar to the difference between soft focus in photography compared to sharp focus. But overall, the benefits of the high-res style of sound over Redbook make up for that. Overall, the differences I hear in imaging between SACD DSD converted to PCM and pure high-res PCM are subtle and minor. I'm pretty satisfied listening to SACD rips on this setup.

    Finally having SACD playback capability is fun. Even though I didn't have SACD playback I did buy some SACDs. I had about two dozen in my collection. Finally been able to listen to the DSD layer on those discs. And I'm now willing to buy more SACDs because I can now actually play them.

    One nice surprise was finally being able to listen to the DSD layer of my Bob Dylan "Love And Theft" SACD. I bought the SACD version because I knew the DSD layer was a better mastering, but until a month ago I had never heard that DSD layer. And yup, the DSD layer is a better mastering. Very nice. The Redbook layer and DSD layer on that SACD are quite different from each other (DR8 vs DR12). And last week I bought the MFSL SACD version of "Love And Theft". Another nice mastering of that album. With the MFSL version the Redbook and DSD layers are essentially the same mastering. I do prefer the DSD layer over the Redbook layer because the DSD layer has what I hear as high-res sonic goodness. I wouldn't have bought that MFSL version if I didn't have the Pioneer player to rip it and play it. Now that I can play the DSD layer I'll be buying more SACDs like that.

    My vote for SACD playback with the best Redbook sound for under $2K is: Pioneer BDP-80FD to rip, Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC, and a Windows or Linux computer running JRiver Media Center. The whole combo will be under $2K.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  25. Steve G

    Steve G Forum Resident

    Location:
    los angeles
    I used to have a Denon 2910 and it was not in the same league as the Oppo. It basically made SACD sound like CD...
     

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