SACD Redbook: Audible Errors on an Accurate Rip

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Mr. Explorer, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Hi guys

    I just got a brand new sealed copy of AP Pet Sounds SACD and when I ripped it last night (with iTunes and XLD both to ALAC) there were audible glitches and errors all over the place.

    But the logs say 0 errors and that it’s an accurate rip.

    What’s worse is in my car CD player this morning the same glitches are there. My SACD player is boxed up so I can’t see how that layer is performing, but does anyone know what’s going on here?

    If the disc is defective why didn’t the secure ripper notice? If it’s not defective how do I get a glitch free rip?
     
  2. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Can you post the full log of the rip? AccurateRip determines whether your rip matches other people’s. If there is a faulty batch of discs all with the same error rips of them all will match and show an AccurateRip. Similarly, if the error is in the digital file used to author the SACD but the disc itself is pristine, secure ripping will not identify any errors as it relies on disc defects throwing up different errors when the area of concern on the disc is read at different speeds.

    So if your data is as you describe that suggests a faulty batch of discs or more specifically a glitch in the file used to author the red book layer.
     
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  3. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Try re-ripping with AccurateRip turned off, just using secure mode. See if that still results in errors.
     
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  4. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Thanks for the replies so far. I’ll definitely post the log as soon as I get home
     
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  5. TapeHoarderDude

    TapeHoarderDude New Member

    Location:
    California
    How are you able to rip SACD? I thought it was protected.
     
  6. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    I’m ripping the red book layer not the SACD layer!
     
  7. hvbias

    hvbias Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    I would also ask in the Beach Boys SACD reissue thread or start a thread to see if others are having issues, because @Sevoflurane is spot on with his assessment. I'm also thinking that it is something with the disc since you were hearing the glitches when playing it in your car's CD player.

    These manufacturing defects do slip through now and then. I just had a headache with a Sviatoslav Richter box set that had audible glitches on it and seeing how it affected all of the early pressing runs the AccurateRip results would simply show "Accurate Rip Confidence (number)"
     
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  8. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    “No errors occurred” is not necessarily an indicator of an error free rip. Nor is a log that scores as 100% on certain sites log checkers. Being able to read the logs will definitely help here.


    In other news, Analogue Productions also did a hybrid SACD of this? Right after MoFi? :confused:
     
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  9. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Hi guys! Here is the log from the XLD rip (which sounded identical to the ALAC rip, glitches in both):


    I will admit I don't know what 85% of this means!
     
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  10. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY

    Everything checks out. That’s a nice high confidence number and it’s on every single track. You’ve ripped it perfectly, I think it’s safe to say whatever audible glitches there are a part of the product itself and not your ripping procedure.


    I wonder if this has been brought up in threads discussing this release? These glitches would be all over every disc in the run, or at least every disc made using molds derived from that particular glass master.
     
  11. supermd

    supermd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    These glitches are on mine as well. I thought I brought it up once, but it was lost in the shuffle.
     
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  12. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Womp womp… you land a title like that, make sure it’s GOOD. really sorry to hear about this for anyone who’s purchased it. At least there’s a dozen other audiophile masterings of Pet Sounds…
     
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  13. supermd

    supermd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    It's the stereo mix that has the errors, and there is only one other audiophile mastering of it... The mono is fine to me.
     
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  14. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Ughh how frustrating, the stereo mix with KG mastering is why I bought this disc, I actually don't like Pet Sounds in mono at all :hide:

    No chance I'd get a different result on a different disc drive? This little Samsung is all I've got but I could go to my brother's house up the road. I do almost all of my listening on my computer so this is crazy frustrating.

    Guess I need to dig out and hookup my system and check out the SACD layer (even though I can't rip it).
     
  15. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    No chance. For all intents and purposes, that’s how it’s actually written on the disc for you and everyone else who has it, regardless of what drive is used. Whatever wonkiness is there is a part of the audio content itself, at least for the redbook layer


    On this note, there’s the MoFi hybrid SACD which should also do the trick for anyone wanting both a DSD and Redbook audiophile-tier mastering of the stereo mix.
    There’s also the 24/192 hi-res that was put up on HDtracks in 2012, that’s currently my go-to for the stereo mix.

    Note that the stereo mix was originally done on analog tape from standard resolution digital transfers of the original multitracks (synced up) But the magic is all in getting a good transfer of what is effectively an analog master, and taking a conservative approach to how the audio is treated and presented. The hi-res is a very valid option as it takes this approach, even though the digital source material may not have been hi-res to begin with.
     
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  16. rnranimal

    rnranimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    You won't get a different result (well, you could get a worse result if another drive introduces errors). You've ripped the audio 100% perfectly. Any audible glitches are in the digital audio contained on the disc, not from ripping method.
     
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  17. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Thanks you guys, I don't want to abandon this mastering, so next step is to try and get people to check their copies and see how widespread the problem is. If I can find a glitch free copy I will. Big thanks to @supermd for checking his!
     
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  18. TapeHoarderDude

    TapeHoarderDude New Member

    Location:
    California
    Anyway that you can copy the CD layer with a CD recorder deck, instead of ripping it on your PC?
     
  19. Lenny

    Lenny Active Member

    Location:
    New York
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  20. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    I posted some samples of the glitching over on the Beach Boys thread, hope to get some meaningful feedback! Quoting them here if either of you guys were curious
     
  21. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
  22. If you know someone with an Oppo 103 or 105 you can do it. It's easy once you have the thumb drive properly set up.
     
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  23. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    I am guessing this may have gone unnoticed because the majority of people buying the SACD will listen to the SACD layer. It would be extremely unfortunate for the SACD layer to also be affected and would have been noticed by now. If you don’t want to return the disc as faulty (which is demonstrably is, you have shown that clearly) then getting a rip of the SACD layer and making your own PCM conversion of it is the way to go.
     
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  24. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    I did a quick test of the SACD layer last night and the errors are still present!
    Posted as such in the other thread:
    No idea why this hasn’t been discussed! I’m feeling pretty burned by this supposedly definitive audiophile experience.

    I would return it in an instant but I got it off of Discogs so trying to return it would just hassle the seller and not get me a new/different copy out of the deal
     
  25. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    That is very bad luck. So the glitches are inherent to the file used for both SACD and CD versions. Maybe the DSD master was used to create the PCM version used on the CD layer.

    Has anyone contacted Analogue Productions directly for their opinion?
     
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