SACD ripping, Mac/Oppo. How, exactly?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by gd0, May 15, 2017.

  1. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I would recommend DSF (Sony) for single files, since they seem to be better for tagging. The Edit Master option creates a single file of the whole album and needs a cue sheet to be played properly. Can be useful for albums that need to be played gapless.
     
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  2. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Proof read your work, dummy! That should, of course, be .dff, not .dsf!
     
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  3. gammarayson

    gammarayson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    Having found this video on ripping sacds on a mac with an Oppo 105, it doesn't look as complicated as I feared:)
    My computer skills are pretty basic, but I might give this a try after all. Is there any important information not mentioned on this video, that I need to know? I'm running a Mac mini(late 2012) El Capitan 10.11.6 in addition to my Oppo 105D. There was some mention of Java(not quite sure what that does, or whether I have it?). Also, I read somewhere that auto resume and auto start on the Oppo should be switched off. I would only be interested in ripping the stereo layer of my sacds. Thanks in advance!
     
  4. gammarayson

    gammarayson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    PS Does the ripping process described here result in dsd files that play gaplessly? Essential for me, as I listen mostly to classical music.
     
  5. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Gapless playback depends of your hardware's capability to do so, not how the software is acquired.
     
  6. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    If you're agnostic about Java go ahead and install it (it might already be installed) as it makes the process a lot easier (you can use the Sonore software vs. the command line). I think the software defaults to stereo so you're good there.
     
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  7. gammarayson

    gammarayson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    I have just spent the last few days ripping over 60 SACDs with my Oppo and Mac mini, and I must say, as someone with only the most basic of computer skills that it really is very easy! All this talk of Terminal commands on this thread is completely over my head, but I used the Sonore iso2dsd software which some clever person made available (many thanks, whoever you are, I really appreciate it!), and with the help of this video:-
    So I would encourage you and others to give it a try:)
     
  8. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    If you read the thread you will learn that some users have an issue with Java, either because it is not installed on their machines, or because they specifically do not want to install it. As a result, they cannot use ISO2DSD, hence the extensive review of the Terminal Commands.
     
  9. gammarayson

    gammarayson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    I have now finished ripping all my SACDs on my Oppo 105d and have recently acquired the 205 which does not have this facility. I'd really like to sell the 105d, but then I would loose the ability to rip SACDs in future. It seems rather extravagant to keep it, just to able to do this. Can anyone point me to a list of older machines(Oppo, Sony Pioneer) that are not too hard to pick up used that can do this that I could use solely for this purpose? I am in Europe.
     
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  10. Claude

    Claude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    The Pioneers (BDP-160 and 170) are rather hard to find, so the best option seems to be a Sony BDP-S390, 490 or 590.

    I would recommend checking this long thread on Computer Audiophile first before buying (search for Sony or the model numbers in the thread):

    SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!
     
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  11. gammarayson

    gammarayson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    Thanks:)
     
  12. Hymie the Robot

    Hymie the Robot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I found a Sony 490 locally for $25 in like new condition off Craigslist a month ago. It will back up a Pioneer Elite 80FD for ripping duties. The Sony is a pretty big step down for everything BUT ripping compared to the Pioneer but is uses the same scripts on the USB so no changes need to be made when ripping between the two.
     
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  13. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    So I decided to finally "figure this SACD ripping out" since I have a huge SACD library and really enjoy my modest music server. I will tell this from a "dummy" perspective because I am a dummy when it comes to this stuff.

    1) I began with purchasing a Sony BDP-S590 on eBay last week for $45. When it showed up it was a BDP-S390 not as advertised. Luckily the S390 model is also capable of ripping SACDs which is all I wanted it for. I then hooked it up to a bedroom TV. Since it was used, I reset it to factory settings, turned on "sleep mode" to load discs quicker and added it to my wireless network. Adding a dvd player to my network (through its menu) is about the extent of my computer network knowledge. lol This all took 1 week to arrive and about 10 minutes to setup.

    2) Next I searched for a flash drive stick in my office drawers. Found one that was 16GB. I formatted it on my MAC computer exactly how instructions were online. You have to format it "MD-DOS" AND you have to partition it "Master Boot Record". I couldnt find the Master Boot Record option so I tried with exFAT, MS-DOS and FAT and each time i put the flash stick in the Sony player it said USB device not supported. This was not easy for me to figure out, but finally in the MAC "Disk Utility" after clicking around I was able to find the "Master Boot Record" partition option as a pull down. This all took about 20 minutes from looking for the flash stick to having it formatted correctly. Apparently very important. I then stuck the "blank" flash stick in the Sony player and did not get a "unrecognized USB device" message on my tv so I was golden!

    3) Next I found the Pioneer based 3 file Autoscript download from this post "SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true! ", first post, second link labeled dropbox, Pioneer players. I made sure to download the 3 files as a group (upper right corner) instead of each file individually. I dragged the "AutoScript folder" download in safari straight to the flash stick. This took about 5 minutes to google and do.

    4) Now the intimidating part... I read that the Sonore ISO2DSD software makes it easy and I was okay with having the controversal Adobe Flash software on my computer since I was NOT going to be doing any terminal DOS typing. Haven't done that in 25 years and never on a MAC. So first I downloaded the Sonore from their website. I put the the couple of Sonore files from the download in my /User/Music on my mac right next the iTunes folder in a new folder called "SACDrips". This was going to be where I wanted to store everything. I then clicked on the Sonore app in its new location and it said I needed a Adobe Flash Developer Kit to run. I then googled Adobe Flash Developer Kit and went to the Adobe website and downloaded what they called Developer Kit. It required my Mac logon password since it was new software. double clicked the downloaded file and it was obvious that now I have Adobe Flash on my computer. I tried to run the Sonore software again and it worked! It is very very very basic software. I typed in the IP address shown from the Sony player network settings menu into the Sonore software screen. For me it was "10.0.1.43.2002" No extra 0's and I think I had to add 2002 in Sonore since that wasn't part of the Sony screen. This took about 20 minutes to do all this.

    I had my 3 files on a working flashstick, I had my Sonore Software up and running, now the whole ripping sequence...

    5) I was feeling pretty good now. I tinkered with my interpretation of how to rip the SACD using the software but it wasn't working. Powered on and off, disc in, disc out, kept hitting the "execute" button on Sonore and nothing. Watched the uTube videos, etc. I did this for about 45 minutes and was starting to get frustrated that I was going to be another statistic on the forums asking for all this help. I kept getting an error message in Sonore app. I finally went back to the post linked in 3) above and read the sequence steps 1-17 carefully. This was not the exact way I was doing it...So I decided to follow the steps 5-17 exactly as written. I kid you not, when I followed them exactly, everything worked. Sony was off, plugged in flash stick, turned it on, the disc tray popped out, I took the flash stick out, put the disc in (Billy Joel's Greatest Hits MFSL), closed the drawer, it loaded, I went into Sony menu and toggled the music setting from 2 channel to multi (This is a Sony player step only, apparently and not in the instructions), Hit execute on Sonore app and bam it was ripping!

    6) I ejected the disc and loaded another and hit Execute and it didn't work. DOPE! I forgot to go back in Sony menu and toggle the 2ch/multi setting again. So i shut off the player (had to unplug it since it was "stuck") and started the steps back at Step 5 again and it worked. For my third disc I went in Sony menu and toggled the 2ch/multi after loading the disc but before hitting Execute, and it worked.

    7) Now I had 3 "iso" files (Billy Joel Greatest Hits 2 discs and Aimee Mann Lost in Space) on my computer because that is the format I chose in Sonore. I then used the Sonore app to select those 3 iso files and extracted to DSF files. Now I had the individual tracks. I felt very successful and went to bed. This whole night was about 5 hours total including and hour and a half of ripping.

    8) Next day I copied those DSF files to a different flash stick and put it in my new OPPO 205 USB plug. Played them and HOLY COW they sounded good. I never remember Piano Man and Captain Jack sounding so "right" in my life.

    I am completely inspired to rip my 500 SACDs now. Each rip takes a while, 20+ minutes. And my wife hates me ripping cds, so it will be when she is on business trips so it may take 2 years, but oh man I am going to do it. I also found out the the ISO file is the full sacd layer so both stereo and multichannel so you have to extract it to DSF twice to get both sets of files. I will be doing this next to see if the OPPO can play the multichannel Elton John discs next. I also want to see how it handles gapless playback on the OPPO 205 and what my tagging/metadata/artwork options are for DSF files. But I am soooo happy right now.

    For those that are intimidated by this whole process, it took $45, one late night, zero computer knowledge and a decent amount of will power to do it. Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  14. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Firstly, I hope you asked for some money back, as the 390 was a cheaper player than the 590 (even if functionally they are identical to you as rippers). False advertising, and all that.

    Secondly, no need to remove the USB stick, you can leave it in.

    Thirdly, some playback software supports the ISO files, so you do not have to extract, but that limits the tagging possibilities.

    Finally, DSF files support all the tagging features you are used to with FLAC, etc. I use mp3tag myself, but you can stick with your preferred software.

    I don't think the 205 handles gapless directly. You have to use something like JRiver if you want gapless playback.
     
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  15. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Congrats! And thank you for posting. Hopefully the naysayers will read this and undertake it themselves.

    Although I use different eqpt and end up with DSD over PCM Flac files, your experience was similar to yours - some trial and error and head scratching up front, but once I “got” it I was off to the races.

    I ripped several hundred and it took me the better part of maybe 6 months but I have everything ripped now (except for a stack of more recently obtained discs - with that same Billy Joel disc on the way!). I also have all of my DVD-A’s and BD-A’s ripped. I rarely play a physical digital disc anymore.
     
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  16. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    Frankly I don't have that much SACD music that requires gapless playback. Maybe a few live albums and a couple prog rock albums. So I am not too concerned with this yet. I will in a year or two when I have my full collection ripped. At that time I might be upgrading my music server options.

    I didn't want to convert my iso/dsf's to PCM/flac files because i really didn't want to do any digital conversion. I wanted to stay "pure" in the digital realm from the source (SACD DSD iso) to playback (DSF or equivalent). So in essence listening to the SACD exactly as it would be with the disc in the drawer. I have nothing against PCM, just didn't want to do Digital to Digital conversion since DSD and PCM are not the same technology.
     
  17. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    FWIW, DoP flac is not converted. It’s just putting the DSD file in an flac wrapper so it can be transported to servers which can only pass through pcm to the DAC. I do this because I use a squeezebox which then passes it through to my Oppo where it is unwrapped and read as DSD.
     
  18. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    I am still pretty ignorant when it comes to all the file formats (but I am learning). Thanks for the correction...

    Curiously does anyone know how much disk space i am gonna need for about 500 sacds? i was thinking 2-3TB but not sure...??
    I was going to just use local USB hard drive hooked to the OPPO 205 hopefully bus powered instead of another power chord. Does anyone know a good hard drive for this?
    USB 3, bus powered, compatible with Oppo 205, quiet, reliable...
     
  19. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    For storage, you have to consider:

    1. are you going to keep both the ISO file and the DSF files? If yes, then you need more space.
    2. the ISO files for some stereo and ALL M-ch SACDs contain DST-encoded DSD (i.e., losslessly coded DSD). When you create the DSF version(s), it is is common to invoke the 'convert DST to DSD' option, as not all DACs can decode DST. This means the file size will increase from 2x-3x depending on the music type (classical music compresses better than rock/pop).

    I suggest you rip a few stereo and M-ch discs and do all the necessary conversions. Then look at the data volume to get some idea about average storage needed per disc, and multiply that figure by 500+ to get your hard-disk requirements.

    Consider the breakdown of stereo to M-ch discs in your collection, and also whether you plan to decode the M-ch portion, or not.

    While I don't use them after I have decoded the audio, I still keep all the ISO just in case.

    I tend to use WD portable drives for the audio, and powered WD drives for archiving everything.
     
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  20. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    I am keeping the iso’s but those are going to stay on my computer/backup only the dsf files will go in the play drive on the oppo that I need to buy storage for.
     
  21. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    Am I right to assume all the metadata that comes from the ripping process ISO to DSF is actually text embedded on the SACD itself and not from some "internet dB lookup" like Gracenote?
    I wondered what the "Version 1.01" was and what the date shown was. I assumed it was the DSD authored date since it seems to be before the actual release date of the SACD.

    I am hoping the "folder.jpg" coverart trick works for the files played through the Oppo.
     
  22. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Yes, the SACD spec. contains more data than any manufacturer has chosen to display. In fact, it supports up to 8 languages!

    The version number identifies which version of the Scarlet Book specifications the disc has been authored to. Yes, the creation date will be when the disc was authored.
     
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  23. Doug_B

    Doug_B Time Traveler (using a telescope)

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have the 105D, and cover art in the "folder.jpg" file is read by the Oppo only for locally attached drives. It is not read if you are accessing the files via the network. The Oppo does not read the cover art in the dsf file metadata either (no matter how they are accessed; the Oppo does read cover art in flac file metadata, though, including via the network). FYI, I did confirm with Oppo customer support with regard to this.

    I would guess that the behavior for the 205 would be the same.

    Doug
     
  24. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    You can embed art with mp3tag to each file, and that should work over a network... mac OS X here, and I have been using mp3tag via wine...
     
  25. Lovealego

    Lovealego Forum Resident

    Location:
    Danville, CA
    Also my ripping was going so well until today...After ripping about 5 discs perfectly, the 6th rip would only get to 80-98% or so then stop. I quit, reboot everything, try another disc and same result.

    Right after that when I started to extract the iso to dsfs, my 2015 mac (retina model) would start whirring louder and louder like it was struggling, and the extraction would take 10 minutes to complete, before it would take less than a minute.

    Anyone run into these issues?
     

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