Santana To Cut Album With The Original Santana Band

It's okay, but I think both were much better with their own bands.

 

I like this one:

 

I think you think because the band used his name they were simply karaoke for him to wank away on guitar to.
He never got control of the band, they bailed on him rather than let that happen.
His talent and vision eventually did show up after he was a solo artist and the band was kaput. Before then it was largely the talent of the rest of the band that carried it, and apparently a corporate vision, not one of an individual.
Other than his work with Buddy Miles which to a greater degree tried to mimic the sound and vibe of the band Santana ( and to a minor degree succeeded) nothing about Carlos Santana the solo artist is like Santana the band.

I was an immediate fan of the band Santana when that first album was released. The solo artist Santana, not so much.

Take note that the three songs that got Santana famous by getting them on the charts are Black Magic Woman which is a Fleetwood Mac song, Evil Ways which was written by some dude named Henry and Oye Como Va which was written by Tito Puente.
So much for "vision".

The albums these songs were on were for the most part songs built around jam sessions that were built around the percussion section of the band and VERY percussion heavy, which was the key component to the Santana sound. Not the guitar.

 

I am a pretty big fan of the first 3 Santana albums , but I like the songwriting on Abraxas Pool better. I think the songs are better structured and the album was obviously far better produced, which given the leaps in technology between them is to be expected.
The only fault I have with the Abraxas Pool album is that Neal Schon wankers far too much and is too over the top with his guitar work.
Which baffles me, in early Journey ( first 7 albums or so) he was an extremely tasteful guitarist

 

Hey rockledge you are one persistent dude. But really you are so off base just making up you're own stories it's quite unconscionable!

 

I never said they were a karaoke band for Santana. All I know is what I have read which is that after they began to become popular after Abraxas , Carlos Santana began to work behind the scenes with management to take control of the band. The rest of the band became upset and left to tour without him after Santana refused to tour again with Micheal Carabello. Fans became upset and management relented as Carabello left and was replaced and Santana rejoined the tour. It was also at this time the David Brown was briefly replaced with Tom Rutley on tour because of Brown's growing drug addiction. During the tour Rolie told Santana he was going to resign after the tour due to Santana's tactics to get rid of Carabello and assume more control but he would complete the tour before leaving,

 

I have a feeling that if he was working behind the scenes with management that any attempt they would have made outside of managements blessing would have been a disaster, not because the band lost a guitar player but because poorly managed tours are normally not good.
I know I seen what was left of the band during the Carvasawhateveritis and it was terrible. The band emptied out a huge arena in no time.
There was no vocals, and just a bunch of jazz wakering.
And it simply wasn't Santana music. It was some bizarre experiment in jazz improvisation that was extremely uninteresting.
One bizarre thing I remember is that they burned huge amounts of incense on stage and you could smell it all over the place, this huge arena had a cloud of smoke over the whole place.

Now that I think about it, maybe he did get control of the band, that would explain the huge change in the bands sound and them abandoning a kickass and very popular sound to go on some jazz improvisation goose chase. And the resulting dive in popularity.

 

Santana became worried about the large amounts of drugs the band was consuming and thought getting rid of Carabello and Stan Marcum would help the situation In addition, he was upset that David Brown's addiction caused his playing to suffer. Some members of the band and especially Rolie did not like Santana's method for getting rid of Carabello and Marcum. However, in an earlier band meeting they agreed something needed to be done about the drug usage which by this time included cocaine and heroin.

I like the Caravanserai and Lotus albums. Gregg Rolie and Neal Schon actually appear on some of the tracks on Caravanserai. However, Michael Carabello and David Brown do not appear on it.

 

I am sure there are those who like it. But it just isn't a Santana album, it isn't the band and sound fans came to associate with the name Santana.
That one guy in the band, especially a guy who only played guitar, was able to gain enough control to get rid of band members is a bit sad.
Whatever the cause, until Abraxas Pool the band had a relatively short lifespan.

 

I believe they reunited once in 1986 for a 20 year anniversary reunion.

 

The speculation in this thread is WAY over the top. Here's a thought, if you think you know what the band members were thinking and want to state as fact, show proof with a link to back up your speculation.

 

One man's "jazz wankering" "Bizarre jazz improvisation" is another man's sublime exploration.
No Vocals! Jeff Beck's killer Blow By Blow and Wired LPs (as well as the rest of his career) must have been hugely disappointing.

Sad is, imo, Journey becoming a prom date arena rock band. "Kickass!"

And the terrible "Carvasawhateveritis" incense concert...well at least the experience only cost about 10 bucks.

NP: Stratovarious/Ginger Baker

 

Welcome, Borboletta and Moonflower are great lps...

 

The majority of my information comes from Joel Selvin's book the Summer of Love about the San Francisco music scene, and various magazine and internet articles I have read over the years.

 

When I was in high school all kickass rock bands were "prom date" material.
I can't say about Journey, I was well into adulthood and domestic responsibility by the time Journey was getting airplay.
You are close, the concert was $7.50 if I remember. That was back in the day before it turned into a situation where everybody but the band members were making massive fortunes off of concerts.

 

Santana - Mother’s Daughter

“Alternate version of "Mother's Daughter", featuring Neal Schon on guitar at the end."

 

Sounds like the same version we're used to...just remixed. In the book, Rolie said they were still recording Abraxas when "Neal came in and ripped a solo" over the track. It's kind of obvious why they didn't include his part on the original album - and why they would have used it later, when they did the quad mix. He wasn't a member of the band when he first recorded it.

 

The quad versions of the early Santana albums have two guitar solos audible at the same time on several songs. Usually multiple Carlos takes, but in this case possibly Carlos and Neal both playing.

 

And if you think it is all speculation, why don't you show proof or a link that it is.

 

jazz improvisation ??? what are you talking about ?? I do agree that the Original Band was great ,but bizarre experiment in jazz improvisation ??? One he never was Jazz ,second little was improvised , Micheal Carabello was a loss ,but he still had the best Drummer , he even Had Rolie for some of Carvasawhateveritis ,and if you don't care for that ,your nuts

 

Allmusic review.

Drawing on rock, salsa, and jazz, Santana recorded one imaginative, unpredictable gem after another during the 1970s. But Caravanserai is daring even by Santana's high standards. Carlos Santana was obviously very hip to jazz fusion -- something the innovative guitarist provides a generous dose of on the largely instrumental Caravanserai. Whether its approach is jazz-rock or simply rock, this album is consistently inspired and quite adventurous. Full of heartfelt, introspective guitar solos, it lacks the immediacy of Santana or Abraxas. Like the type of jazz that influenced it, this pearl (which marked the beginning of keyboardist/composer Tom Coster's highly beneficial membership in the band) requires a number of listenings in order to be absorbed and fully appreciated. But make no mistake: this is one of Santana's finest accomplishments.

 

well hard to not like that review
Caravanseri jumps all over the place ,but its never what I call Jazz , and little is Improvised , Fusion is a better term for some of the tracks , Song of The wind is one of my favorite tracks on the Lp ,and Neal is so close to
Santana's its hard to tell his Les Paul from Santana's when he's not rocking out

 

Back to the op.Really?Forty five years later and you want to cut a lp of new material.Either I am very right or very wrong.

 

I don't know how much you know about music, but he used almost exclusively jazz scales and a lot of jazz phrasing.
I am nuts because I don't like a particular album? Wow, a statement like that certainly boosts your credibility.
It was mostly improvisation. That is quite obvious just by listening to it. That it was well recorded doesn't make it not improvisation.

 

I had the dubious pleasure of listening to Journey" s Greatest Hits over the weekend. Journey is pretty much an unknown band in Australia and after hearing them the first time I understand why. If this is their best, then their worst must really stink. My wife didn't even let the album finish. 'Get this off' she demanded, and for once I was only too eager too obey.

Anyway my point is this. Rolie might play keyboards and sing but I cannot see how he had any influence on the sound of Santana based on what I've just heard. He was a founding member sure but if Journey is the sound of Rolie then there is no trace of Rolie in Santana. I guess its the same voice but that doesn't mean much.