Schiit Loki DSD companion DAC $149

Goes to show that looks can be deceiving. Think Audiquest Dragonfly!

Really, for $149, there's not much to lose to try it out and see if you like it. If you don't, pass it on to someone else to try. I sure like mine.

On a side note, at the beginning of last week, there were 73 DSD titles at SuperHiRez. By Friday, 114; today...118. The no. of titles is expandly rapidly, so there's some really nice content to explore now. Once DSD content from Sony Music starts to be uploaded to SuperHiRez, things will really take off.

What's not to like?

 

The reason would be to be curious. Wondering if the magic would come through even with PCM converted to DSD. Maybe there's magic in the way it does the output stage that doesn't happen with PCM DACs.

 

I kind of doubt it. For me the whole point of using Loki is that one can stream native DSD files.

As for the output stages of PCM DACs; in my experience that really is what separates the men from the boys when it comes to DACs, but it shouldn't matter if they're PCM or DSD as they're dealing with analog data.

 

Thanks for providing your hands-on report, Puma Cat. Much appreciated.

 

Thanks for the great review Pumacat. My system is mid-fi at best and as a late adopter I'm years away from getting into DSD playback.

But I like to stay abreast of developments and enjoy reading about new gear. Reviews like yours are a big help.

 

Sony's hi-res audio page. Notice the marketing push for hi-res (i.e., comparing it to hi-def video) and emphasis on DSD downloads:

http://discover.store.sony.com/High-Resolution-Audio/

 

Looks like another excellent, bargain device from Schiit. My only confusion is why is the front panel switch is required? Surely this switching could have been automatic based on the detection of an appropriate DSD stream at the USB input to Loki? I can't see how this could be used with a playlist that contained mixed DSD and PCM material as it would require manual switching. Then again I'll probably buy one anyway as it's even cheaper than DIY!

 

It's $149 and there are obvious cost constraints to reach that price. Perhaps an auto detection feature was more costly to implement than a manual switch.

 

I was thinking about it further, and in order to implement the type of automatic switching you desire, it would have to be done in the PC and not in the Loki. To use the Loki, both it and your PCM DAC have to be connected to your PC by two separate digital comnections. The PCM DAC connects to the Loki through a simple analog pass through. In order to implement auto detection and switching, some sort of custom driver would probably have to be implemented to tell the PC to switch between the two digital connections. Rather than write PC software, the Schiit audio folks implemented a manual hardware solution.

 

Schiit stated this in their announcement blurb. However, as Tony pointed out earlier in the thread, the DAC chips they are using support both PCM and DSD, and the output of the chips is a high-speed delta-sigma modulated signal. One would think that the analog output stage would be optimized for this delta-sigma output of the AK 4396 (Loki) or AK 4399 (Bifrost/Gungnir). You can see the datasheets here:

4396: http://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4396VF.pdf

4399: http://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4399EQ.pdf

(You can read Charles Hansen's [of Ayre] comments on the 24-bit vs. 32-bit parts here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...versampling-who-does-it-best-6088/index5.html )

The only difference, as I see it, is the presence of the modulator noise in DSD above 20 kHz. All DSD DACs have analog low-pass filters with 'knees' in the 40 kHz to 70 kHz range (most at 50 kHz or less). While the noise is rising above 20 kHz, it is still at a very low-level (it is starting at -120 dB SNR), and should be inaudible if we trust the 20-20kHz human hearing limit. There are plenty of scare stories about DSD's noise giving rise to intermodulation distortion that folds down into the audio band, but, if that is true, what will happen with a 'rectangular' 24/192 channel? With it you can record/create 90 kHz sines at full-power, but if low level DSD noise is an issue, signal out to 90 kHz or so would also be a problem (of course, no one is suggesting that you would be able to record such signals through real-world microphones, nor could you replay them via real-world speakers, but the potential for intermodulation in poorly designed amplifiers would be the same as for DSD). So, I'm at a bit of a loss to see what differences they would design into the analog output stage for PCM compared to DSD, especially when both formats are reproduced via the same delta-sigma modulator in the DAC chips.

 

At the rate technology is advancing, within the next 10 years recorded music could be like a hologram

 

The $99 Schiit Modi is also using the AK4396 chip.
It is really tempting to want to compare the Loki to the Modi. Both are using the AK4396.

 

I just received my Loki. It was a bit of a pain to setup and I don't like that you can't control the volume in any playback app. I ultimately decided to use it with my bedside table headphone rig which consists of my Modi DAC and Magni headphone amp. The analog out of the Modi goes into the Loki and then the analog out of the Loki goes into the Magni amp. I am using Sennheiser HD650 headphones and my Dell Inspiron laptop. The playback software is Foobar2000. I have only purchased one title, A Love Supreme by John Coltrane. I chose that because I don't own that current AP SACD (I do have the 2002 Impulse one which isn't that great). I also have a few iso files of SACDs that were ripped with a PS3 (but not by me so I don't know the process used).

First off, there does seem to be a bit of noise with this unit, mainly in the form of tiny random pops both when the music is playing and when it isn't. Sometimes it seems to be related to things happening on the laptop such as minimizing and moving the mouse, etc. I guess I shouldn't try and multitask but I've rarely had those issues with playing flacs, even hi-rez ones. It also has a high bit of noise in general, kinda like the hiss of a piece of gear turned on with volume up and nothing playing, hitting the bypass button immediately kills it and I've never noticed it with my Modi DAC. Sometimes at the start of a new track (they didn't seem gapless but I don't have any truly gapless content to test yet) there was a tiny pop which was annoying. Moving the progress slider also produced to some weird digital noise. Overall the sound quality seemed a bit bright, and things like the snare and sax just just sounded too harsh at times. I might have to buy something I already have on SACD to fully compare but I'm not eager to waste $25. The ISO files I've played back as converted PCM on my system so maybe doing a comparison of those on the Modi and the DSD version on the Loki is in order.

The real pain is in having to switch the playback sources in foobar and the windows sound control panel when flipping between DSD and PCM. I'm hoping there is a solution (either now or in the future) which can play both files just fine, so I could potentially have a playlist of mixed formats. I'm not sure as I'll be diving fully into the DSD thing just yet, if I had a PS3 to rip my collection that might change, but I don't want to buy one as I won't use it for anything else. If they started offering some truly rare or new DSD titles (unlike all the AP stuff I already own most of on SACD) I might be tempted to get into it at which point I'd probably buy a more robust DSD DAC. Right now, I think the Loki is going to exist for the pirates out there trading these iso files. For me I'd rather buy the SACD for $5 more which will appreciate in value (maybe), and if I want to sell it later I can. If I buy a file...well I can't sell it second-hand if I grow tired of it. The other thing is if I want to hear an SACD I just turn the player on, pop a disc in and hit play, the whole process takes maybe 20 seconds. Playing DSD files will involve lots of mouse clicks and configuration changes, unless of course I use a dedicated software player just for DSD. Converting my CDs and DVD-A to flac was a no-brainer because having an instant library that I could play any track within seconds is very convenient. DSD will have to get to that point for wide acceptance but I fear hi-rez PCM is too far out of the gate and is more easily mixed and match with our current redbook libraries.

In the end this isn't a bad piece of gear to test the waters with, and it is a $150 piece of gear, so don't expect a miracle in a box. Perhaps if I had bought a Mytek or something more robust I might feel file-based DSD was the second coming, but I think the old adage "you get what you pay for" applies here. With that in mind, I don't know if anyone is going to seriously spend $25 a pop on DSD albums to play back on this cheap of a device. I think this unit is going to sell really well among the pirate community.

 

I just bought this cheap piece of Schiit!

 

Review or it didn't happen

 

Super curious about this little Schiit. Does anyone else have any listening impressions? I have read about clicks upon starting playback. Are those irritating or minor?

 

Placed an order yesterday! hope to have it next week! I hope to be happier than Schiit with it.

 

I almost made a joke about how "pirate booty" relates to Schitt but I refrained.

 

Nice to see my comments are the "butt" of your joke

 

J River will play the files with no problem. I will update my findings on how this works when I have the Loki in my Hands.

 

personally, all I ever cared about with dsd was the multichannel sacd's. other than that, total placebo effect. the recording, mixing and mastering quality are absolutely more important, imo, than any special encoding voodoo. 24 bit/96 is fine by me.

 

Agree with the sentiment in general.

On thing about DSD multichannel. Does anyone know if bass management was done in the DSD domain or did the players/receivers convert to PCM first?

 

I don't believe you can perform bass management with dsd, unless it's been converted to pcm. true dsd signals bypass the bass management.

 

It depended on the player. Most used PCM, but Sony did make a DSD processor for use in some of their players (XA-9000ES for one, I believe). No idea if any other manufacturers used this Sony part, though.

Yes, just checked, see: http://www.hifishock.org/galleries/Documents/Sony_ES_Sacd_Player_SCD-XA9000ES_Technology.pdf

 

My Loki is waiting at the local FedEx store for pickup. If the Loki sounds good it will be the perfect solution for me. The vast majority of my music is Redbook CD and my CAL Sigma II(16/44.1) DAC with a NOS tube has yet to be dethroned by many of the new and much more expensive high-res capable DACs on the market. I do own many SACDs and have ripped them using my PS3. I plan on doing some A/B comparisons between my Denon SACD player (DVD-2900) and the Loki. I'll be playing the DSD files via a Mac Mini with TEAC's free HR Audio Player software.

For grins I will convert the handful of high-res PCM files that I own to DSD using Korg's Audiogate software. I can compare those with my Audio-GD NFB-12 DAC which is the only high-res PCM DAC I own. I only use the Audio-GD on high res material because the CAL sounds better with Redbook CDs. I do not plan on using the pass-through function of the Loki. My CAL DAC and the Loki will be connected via separate inputs on my Luxman L-550AX integrated amp. If nothing else it will be a fun experiment for $150. I'll report back once I have had a chance to do some critical listening.