Schiit Mani Phono Preamp

I figured out the narrow gain thing while playing around with a 3mv $99 MM cart. 42db of gain was barely enough, while 48db of gain was too high. It was somewhere in between, and without the opportunity to fine tune, I stuck with 42db as a compromise.

 

My experience with the Mani has been mixed and I'm returning it as a result. I'm still within the window. FYI I'm using it in between a Rega Brio-R integrated amp and a Rega Planar 2 (2016) with factory mounted Carbon cartridge. Yes I know that is something that I should consider upgrading and I agree but for now I'm going to play the holy hell out of my factory mounted and aligned Rega cartridge which to me sounds punchy and snappy enough to use it for a while. Also running signal thru original Kimber Kable speaker wire into a pair of Sonus Faber Chameleon B bookshelf loudspeakers and also a line out to an SVS 10" front firing sub with down firing passive radiator. Room size ("spare" bedroom used as mini media room) is approx 14x10 with no wall treatments other than some cool movie posters mounted on thick foam core.

I had the Mani plugged in for ten days at from day one to day ten I could detect no differences that were readily apparent as a result of any burn in effect. I was immediately surprised by the wide sound stage this thing throws out and immediately felt good about my purchase. Also, the low end really pushes hard, but I didn't consider it to be a "goosed" or overhyped attempt, but some people might. But that's about the end of my good impressions list.

Here's what I heard that jumped out after less than ten minutes of dedicated listening: the mids and highs were all off target. What midrange frequencies there were felt like they were an afterthought, and kind of reminded me of a "mid-range suckout" equalization curve. This is a big issue for me because good vinyl is such magic in this bandwidth and I felt like there was a big piece of the picture missing or relegated to a minor level of importance.

The highs were ear fatiguing in a big way after only about 15 minutes. I've never really heard something like this from an analog source but it sounded almost like a bad digital ringing that just killed my ears the longer I sat and listened. This exact thing happened every single time I had a dedicated listening session and I disgustedly cut each one short because I couldn't bear it.

Everyone's mileage will vary in every situation, of course, and if you like yours then maybe I was sent a problem child, but I also felt that the MM gain settings were somehow incorrect. For instance, when I switched from the 42db setting (which I felt was causing distortion on a cartridge that has a lower output than most MM ones and sounded overdriven) to the 48db setting, the distortion went away but so did the good low end. It's almost like the settings, which I checked and double checked, may have been REVERSED on the pre amp and doing the opposite of what the manual claimed. Either way, they did not sound good or even acceptable to me in either configuration. The 30db setting was far too quiet for my setup.

In short, I'm so unhappy with the sound of mine that I am not even considering holding on to it and am shipping it back to Schiit. Sorry, Mani fans, but it wasn't a fit for me. Hopefully others will have good luck.

 

Just curious, how much experience do you have with phono preamps, and what other phono preamps have you tried. So, "compared to what?"

Is this the first "separate" phono preamp you have worked with?

 

No midrange is no midrange.

No midrange is no midrange compared to midrange. See the Fremer poll.

 

The question was addressed to chargrove.

His experience was much more pronounced from reading than just a thin midrange. (btw, your "no midrange" characterization has been stated many times, and frankly a little over the top - it is a little exaggerated. I tend to agree with you that the midrange on the Mani might be a little thin at times and only on certain material, however my experience is that it is far from "non-existent").

I still run a Mani on one of my four active TT's, and I spend a lot of time listening to it. Although I have better phono preamps, it is still much better than described above. He must have received a dud. I also tried / compared the Mani extensively to a Cambridge 651p (much like the 640 in the posters profile), and returned the Cambridge as the Mani bettered it.

You know how this hobby is though - there are so many variables when it comes to equipment matching / integration, impedance matching, cartridge matching ---- that some have experiences that are outliers and lead to extreme "no midrange" characterizations.

 

Yeah but what about the Fremer poll?

 

What about it?

Is Fremer the end-all, be-all in this hobby? What about Guttenbergs opinion, and many others on the Mani?

It is a decent phono stage, and for $129 IMHO cannot be bettered. Treat it for what it is - a good budget stage. It comes back to "compared to what" and what is your budget, system and expectations.

 

Forget about Fremer - what about you? You going to stick to "no midrange" or are you going to qualify that a little further, and offer a more realistic characterization?

 

Yeah that’s it.

 

Sure. Currently owned other phono pre-amps that all sound better to me than the Mani:

REGA FONO MINI A2D
TONAR VINYLINE
PRO-JECT PHONO BOX E
CAMBRIDGE AUDIO SOLO MM

 

Does anyone use the AT440MLb cart with the Mani? If so, what are the recommended settings. (I'm completely useless at understanding all of this, its not exactly straightforward exchange of terms here!)

AT440MLb specs

Frequency Response 20-25,000 Hz
Channel Separation 28 (dB at 1 kHz)
Recommended Load Impedance 47,000 ohms
Output 4.0 (mV, 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec)
Channel Balance 1.0 (dB at 1 KHz)
Coil impedance : 3,200 ohms at 1 kHz
DC resistance : 800
Load Capacitance : 100-200pF
Coil inductance (mH, 1 kHz) : 490
Dynamic compliance (x10-6 cm/dyne) : 10
Static compliance (x10-6 cm/dyne) : 40

Schiit Mani specs

Gain 1 = Low, Gain 2 = Low (Decca Mode) Gain 30db
THD: <0.005%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >90dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted
Crosstalk: -75dB, 20-20kHz
Sensitivity: 9mV for 300mV output
Overload Margin: >20dB

Gain 1 = Low, Gain 2 = High (Standard MM Mode) Gain: 42dB
THD: <0.008%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >82dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted
Sensitivity: 2.3mV for 300mV output

Gain 1 = High, Gain 2 = Low (Low MM/High MC Mode) Gain: 48dB
THD: <0.01%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >80dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted
Sensitivity: 1.3mV for 300mV output

Gain 1 = High, Gain 2 = High (MC Mode) Gain: 59dB
THD: <0.03%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >70dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted
Sensitivity: 0.3mV for 300mV output

Input Impedance: Selectable 47 ohms or 47k ohms

RIAA Accuracy: +/- 0.2dB, 20 hz - 20 khz

Output Impedance: 75 ohms

 

Standard MM Mode, 42dB, is the one you want to start with.

You could experiment with Decca Mode, 30dB, or with Low MM/High MC Mode, 48dB, to see if you like either of those better.

In my opinion, 48dB will be too much and you'll hear more noise on that setting than with 42dB of gain.

I have my Schiit Mani set to 30dB of gain for my Ortofon 2M series carts, which like your AT output at 4.0 mV (or higher, depending on the model). That amount of gain is plenty, but some users on this thread feel that the amp is overcompensating. YMMV

 

@Gabe Walters thank you so much. I did try 48dB but like you say it was too much, too loud. So dropped it to 42.

Will experiment tomorrow setting it lower

 

Let us know how that works out - I have been running my 440mlb on a Mani at 42db for a while now, never tried it at a lower setting. I did try 48db also, actually ran that way for a while, but I like 42db better.

I am running it on a SL-1200.

 

I have to say with my old turntable set up I had my mani set to 48 (that was with the Audio Technica LP120 turntable into a Kenwood receiver from around 2002, can't remmeber the model #) but now I am using a restored Pioneer PL-71 and have had to bump it down to 42 and it sounds much better. I have it routed now into a restored Pioneer SX 1050. Even the the phone stage is great on that receiver I like the way the mani sounds a bit better. As has been mentioned before it comes down to your gear and personal preference.

 

Yeah, gear especially you can get gain in other parts of the system (or not) that can compensate for a couple db here and there... it's all relative.

 

Me too. The difference between the two gain settings is not at all subtle to me. I found the Mani unpleasant at 42db. Everything seemed to flatten out. At 30db, the music seemed to become simultaneously more tactile and also deeper, like the music extended far beyond my front wall. The amount I have to turn up my amp to compensate at 30db is miniscule. I'm almost always between 9:00 and 10:00, compared to 8:00 to 9:00 at 42db.

In my modest system, the Mani is a real winner.

 

Completely forgot about this until yesterday. Tried the lower setting but it was really really quiet, had to really crank it. It might feel softer, so worth trying and see what you think.

A great phono stage though, whatever your preference.

 

I do own a Schiit Mani, and I used it a very short time. It was better than my first preamp, the Cambridge P640. It has a better stereo spread, and the background noise is minimal (an issue, since I play with a moving coil cartridge).
The Schiit Mani is outclassed though by the Trichord Dino mk2, which extracts much more detail and ‘drive’ from the grooves. Considering the price the Mani performs quite well though. ln one aspect the Mani stays superior : the absolute silent background. For now it is my spare preamp.

 

Got a mani on monday and love it. I have it hooked up to my rega Rp3 brio r going into Rega rx3 speakers, Cartridge is a Rega exact.

Have from day one set gain to 42db and in my system it really shines the brio r phono stage was good but the mani is leaps ahead in every way it opens up the system so everything is clearer the soundstage is nicely wide and imaging is now precise and solid to the point that you now can place the musicians in the soudstage. lows are now quite a bit lower and has more body to them never boomy. Mids are still as smooth as they were with my setup but slightly more creamy and the highs are superb never tiring or shrill just more in every way. Listening to applewood road last night and the room filled with glorious sound it just fully engulfed me. With the brio's phono the music was there and engaging and i enjoyed it but with the mani for me is a must for anyone that want's to move from inbuilt stages.

 

Revisiting this thread... I did get a refund minus restocking fee from Schiit. No issues. Cost like $16 to ship back plus restocking fee so I'm out like almost $40 for my trouble. Oh well. I just could not keep it. The ringing was so pronounced every single time I listened that it was a no brainer for me. I have no idea what it was from, other than something about the circuitry was making an audible noise that I found unacceptable and fatiguing. Like I mentioned above, I'd compare it to an almost digital sounding effect. But, lemonade from lemons, I wound up really getting into the Cambridge Audio Solo MM phono preamp and it's now my go to device. Yeah I'll upgrade again but wow there's a lot more bang for my buck here than with the Mani, but that's all I'll say in this thread about something else so as not to get too off topic. Thanks!

 

Over a year later and I picked up another Mani from amazon. I had to see if the first one I bought from the manufacturer may have been a lemon. This time around...pretty much the same thing as the first time, even with somewhat different equipment on hand. For now I am running my Rega P2 (with upgraded stylus on the Carbon cart from LP Gear) into an NAD 316 BEE v2 integrated amp and to a new pair of KEF Q550 mini tower floor standing loudspeakers.

The NAD integrated amp has a wonderful built in phono stage. Let me emphasize how good it really is. Unbelievable at that price point good. Seriously.

Again, pretty much a repeat of my first experience with the Mani. While the digital sounding ringing didn't seem quite as bad this time...it was still very noticeable. And annoying. The midrange was still missing to a large degree, as well. IDK...I'm still quite OUT on this unit, man. I mean it couldn't compete with the built in NAD, which trounced it IMHO.

Don't even get me started on the next comparison that got made...the $150 Mani against a $450 Lehmann Black Cube Statement. By the way that's Lehmann's low end phono stage. Yeah, it blew the doors off the Mani, as well it should. I won't even detail it because at no point did the Mani ever compete against the Lehmann in any respect.

Here's another surprising comparison: the Mani vs the $75 Pro-Ject Phono Box E. Guess who lost? The one that cost twice as much. Hells bells the Phono Box E totally grabs the signal by by the balls and firms it up and is in control but doesn't lose itself in the process. Perhaps the Phono Box E puts a tad too much subsonic filtering in place, I'll say that, and maybe a bit more of a hf rolloff than I'd like too, and the Mani has one strength which is a really big, wide presentation...but overall the Pro-Ject is still way better than the Mani to me and feels more like I'm getting the essence of what is there within the grooves and nothing more, as opposed to the Mani "smear" for lack of a better word to use. By this I mean it's just overhyped and sounds futzed with to no end every time I've heard it, as when a circuit design seeks to do too much for its own good and the results are artificial sounding.

I truly wish I could like the Mani. I am a big fan of "giant killer" audio gadgets and sometimes you can actually strike gold and find one that you enjoy hearing. I cannot, however, bring myself to find this little box enjoyable, and have given it several listens. My bottom line gut feeling is the Mani represents shoddy work and/or cheap components. If I can feel like I've done better at half the price of this already "budget" priced phono stage, then I have to feel justified in that stance unapologetically.

Thanks!

 

What was the gain setting you used, out of curiosity?

 

I used the lowest two settings

 

That's too bad as it plays on my equipment beautifully (I'm playing off a Pioneer PL-71 with a Nagaoka MP-200 and a 500).