Second Guessing Critics

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by joelee, Oct 8, 2002.

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  1. joelee

    joelee Hyperactive! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston
    I see that the new Tom Petty LP has gotten lukewarm reviews from critics. I haven't heard the new LP yet but I think TP has a great track record for consistency.
    I remember the critics slamming "Exile on Main ST' when it came out saying it was a bunch of half-written sloppy songs ect....
    Any other LPs y'all can think of that have stood the test of time that were originally panned by critics?

    Joe
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Senior Member

    Location:
    WNY
    I saw Tom Petty live this summer and didn't care for the two new tunes he previewed, so we'll see what the album is like as a whole. I do however really like the title track from the album. Check it out at www.tompetty.com
     
  3. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Critics are a bizarre breed. [I make an exception of my own critiques of the Everly's SACD on another thread.]

    There is an adage about those who can't do becoming critics. They need to appear important and many delight in skewering people who have actually achieved something worthwhile.

    Of course, there are many critics whose motivation comes from a love and passion for a given field. Those ones can add true insight.
     
  4. Peter D

    Peter D Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Led Zeppelin was slammed pretty hard in the 70s by most critics but have a pretty positive critical reputation today.

    Brubeck's "Time Out" was pretty heavily criticized when it came out; a lot of people said it wasn't real jazz because it wasn't in 4/4 time.

    Finally, to continue the genre hopping, my favorite classical piece of the 20th century--Stravinsky's Rite of Spring--was not instantly appreciated (certainly by the audience, who apparently rioted at the premier, but also by critics, if I remember correctly).

    Incidentally, I'm one of those people who do actually pay attention to what professional critics think. Sure there are plenty of critically acclaimed records that I don't like, and some critically panned albums that I love, but as a general rule I've found that I'm far more likely to enjoy a record that got good reviews than one that got bad reviews. So given my limited CD buying budget, I'd be a fool to ignore information that can help me avoid turkeys or find unexpected gems. (Of course, forums like this help serve the same purpose!)
     
  5. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Speaking of Tom Petty, I just noticed on hmv.com a newly released live CD titled Live in Cleveland for about $26 U.S. Is this some kind of grey market bootleg, or does anyone know anything more about it? Oddly, they have no listing for the new CD (I was looking for an affordable copy with the bonus DVD in it).
     
  6. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Tom Petty's career has been pretty consistent, but I think he's been slipping a bit as he gets older. I like Tom Petty, but to be honest, the only album I ever listen to start to finish is Damn the Torpedoes, and maybe Southern Accents. Everything else has something I always skip, and some only have a few tracks I like. As for his Warner Bros. albums, Wildflowers had a few good tracks I really like, but I rarely listen to She's The One (when I do, it's usually Walls), and I tried Echoes a lot when it came out, but have never really warmed up to it. I hope this latest one's a bit better, but if it isn't, well, considering he's been recording consistently for 25+ years, I won't hold it against him.
     
  7. Rspaight

    Rspaight New Member

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Entertainment weekly gave Last DJ an A-, for whatever that's worth. The three-named guy who does a lot of reviews for All Music Guide hated it.

    It's sitting in my car as I type, so we'll see.

    I actually liked She's The One and Echoes a *lot*. (Probably helps that I was going through a separation when Echoes came out...) His cover of "Change The Locks" is very crankworthy.

    Ryan
     
  8. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    You're right.
    Stravinsky was slammed, and so was everything Mahler wrote during his time on this earth. The major critics did not GET Mahler. Shame.

    Then you have the acts who really deserved commercial success but only got critical raves. Like Squeeze or Marshall Crenshaw, for example. I think the critics were right that time.
    Critics are human too, it's all about individual taste. We should always take everything with a grain of salt.

    Dan C
     
  9. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Man, one and a half stars? Rolling Stone (Greg Kot reviewing) gave it three.
     
  10. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Santana's 1st album was bitch-slapped hard by Rolling Stone when it came out.
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I don't listen to professional critics, usually. I almost never agree with anything they have to say.

    One exception where I DID follow a critic's advice was an article in Stereo Review where someone gave a glowing review of The Waitresses "Wasn't Tomorrow Wonderful?". I already had the 45 "I Know What Boys Like", and saw the video, so I took a chance. I'm glad I did! That album was a highlight of the 80s!
     
  12. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    Hmmm, maybe Steve Simels was your advice man - I snagged the Fabulous Thunderbird's Butt Rockin' and the Bus Boys' Minimum Wage Rock and Roll cause of Double S - wonder where he is today???
     
  13. Same with Charles Ives. I think his music is fascinating. When I first started listening to him in my college radio days, I remember the mainstream classical music program guy refering to him as "Crazy Charlie". That's what the critics called Ives in the '50s, 60s, early 70s. And now of course, he's considered along with the Mahler's and the Stravinsky's, a genius.

    I also remember McCartney and Ram receiving luke warm receptions when they came out, and now they're arguably considered his 2 best albums along with Band On The Run.

    Steve Simels was a great rock critic. Used to read him regularly in Stereo Review. Ah, the good old days. :)
     
  14. Casino

    Casino Senior Member

    Location:
    BossTown
    Simels was the best. Made SR worth reading back in the '70's and '80's. Got quite a bit of good music I wouldn't have known about if not for him. And if it was tuneless noise, he told you that as well.
     
  15. Aquateen

    Aquateen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I don't know about his new one but I think he's still fantastic. Echos was a great record.
     
  16. Jason Brown

    Jason Brown Forum Resident

    Location:
    SLC, UT
    IIRC, Dark Side of the Moon was universally reviled by critics upon its release.

    It would be hard to find a negative review of it now.

    Positive or negative, I find professional record reviews to mean very little to me.
     
  17. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    IIRC, I always thought Simels was a crackpot. Didn't he hate 90% of everything he heard? Didn't he dislike the Beatles? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but to my ever-fading memory, I connect him with overwhelmingly negative reviews - I don't recall agreeing with him too often...
     
  18. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    I could never go with the concept of a critic. How could they tell what makes us laugh or cry. Most of their top choices suck. I always make my own decisions, for instance, I enjoyed an early 80's (1982) flick "Jekyl and Hyde Together Again" with Mark Blankfield whom I thought was hilarious! No critics agreed...There are hundreds more. :)
     
  19. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    And, THAT's out answer, folks! Michael has the right answer. YOU decide. Why should the opinion of one critic with a name be more important or informed that yours? Just get the album in question and decide with YOUR filters.
     
  20. Lorin

    Lorin Senior Member

    Location:
    Fl.
    I've listened to The Last DJ 3 times...I'm glad I didn't listen to the reviews. I really like this album, a lot...It could be that I'm at that age where I agree with Petty's viewpoint on radio and the music business..and share more than a little bit of nostalgia. Lot's of 60's influences throughout...and I enjoyed the nod to George Harrison and Bluejay Way.
     
  21. Joseph

    Joseph Senior Member

    My approach to "reviewing" the critics is to get a feel for whether or not you agree with what they write. In the case of Steve Simels I very often agreed with his reviews. When he recommended something I usually checked it out because I knew that our musical tastes were similar.
     
  22. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Well, you know, ideally critics are there just to help you save time and money, not to dictate your emotional responses. You find one you tend to agree with, and you use his or her advice to find stuff. If they get cocky and cross the line at times, realize a cocky critic is a very good thing, as it takes a certain over-abundance of self-confidence to ignore the tons of hype and expectations and to form an honest opinion on a brand new work.

    Critics are good. If you don't dig any, don't read them. They really are not some type of cultural or taste police; that ain't the concept at work here. Sorry so many feel like it is...

    Besides, there really are some great music critics working today, though few good ones at the big publications. Those mainstream rags are way too friendly towards albums (never forget how Jann fired Lester Bangs, I mean the real Lester Bangs for gods sake, the greatest rock critic EVER, for being too 'unfriendly' towards artists! I recall a critic getting the boot from Rolling Stone for writing a bad review of the big Hootie album, but the sad details escape me at the moment...). It is rare to find a tough *and* fair critic, but for rock music, they are out there.

    Sadly, the situation with film critics is in bad shape right now, but maybe some new folks will eventually turn the tide there.


    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  23. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Yeah, I can see parallels between these so-called film critics (at least the major ones who we hear from often, like Ebert), and stock market analysts. They'll tell you to your face that you have to buy in (because their jobs are so wrapped up in the deal), but behind the scenes they tell their friends how much of a POS the stock/movie is. I can't sincerely believe that these people believe Hollywood is releasing quality movies these days (once in a great while, maybe).
     
  24. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    I'll tell you a secret. Most film critics I have known (and I have been one myself, so you probably shouldn't believe anything I'm saying...) are incredibly scared of losing their jobs. This, they think (and are often right) will happen if they are seen by the editors as out of touch, cranky, or strange. As a result, when a film opens in New York, after the first big showing where all the NY (or insert LA) critics watch the film together and are able to gauge each other's reactions, the film critics in, say, St. Louis, devour the initial reviews on the wire a day or two before they have to write their own reviews. They often 'adjust' their opinions accordingly.

    There are, of course, some exceptions to this rule, but trust me, it happens more than most people would believe.

    I remember talking with one critic after he saw an advance screening of L.A. Confidential. He said he hated it. A few days later, I read his 4 star review in the paper. What changed his mind? Who knows, but I know for a fact he read up on other critics reviews first, so I'm inclined to believe...

    You basically have one or two vocal critics in New York and LA who decide the tone for the nation. Occasionally, you see a major dissent, and papers do feel free to fire 'tough' critics. Kenneth Turan was one of the few voices against Titanic, and you should read up on the hell he took for it. To the paper's credit, he at least is still with them today.

    Luckily, music criticism today is still quite more de-centralized.

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  25. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    Which is the great thing about this forum-one can always one's mind about anything and not have worry about being censored or swayed by someone else's opinions!

    And we have a cool moderator with conncections to the biz!
    Is this a great place to be or what?!:agree:
     
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