Seeking advice on stereo placement, room treatment

Seeking some advice for my brother. Tonight we spent a couple hours on a first try to arrange his stereo setup in his basement. Problem is it doesn’t sound good, no matter how we move it around.

He’s had this TT(Thorens)+amp(S.A.T.) +speakers(Magnepan)-combo upstairs in the main living before and it sounded quite good. Also before in three different apartments with good to great success. But right now in this basement, it doesn’t sound good. Picture below is an Iphone panorama shot. (Walls and ceiling are straight in reality. And the colorful things hanging from the ceiling are something we tried covering the ”window-holes”. )



He’s aware of that he needs to do some kind of room treatments, but question is, where to start? Its hard to explain exactly what it sounds like, but the soundimage / soundstage is very blurry right now. Hard to distinguish the instruments and where the are on/in the stage. It almost sounds like everything is coming from one big blob in the middle. And you get tired of listening quite fast.

Shelves, paintings on the walls and a big rug on the floor will be added.

Room info:
Walls - wood
Floor - wood
Ceiling - concrete

Is it no use trying to arrange the stereo system before this room is fully furnished? His thought was to place the system first where it sounds best, and furnish the rest of the room after that. But right now thats hard, because it doesn’t sound good anywhere.

/Ulf

 

For some reason your picture disappeared when I reloaded the page. How's the back wall? Is there some kind of diffusion/absorption there? I had some flutter echo problems between my back and front wall because both were all bare and parallel to each other, and it made everything sound kind of "smeary" (for lack of a better word) and harsh, especially in music with dense mixes (not so muich with sparse instrumentation).

Also, absorption on side walls is always welcome.

 

Looks like a fairly decent system and room. From your description of the sound quality (or lack of sound quality) the first thing I would do is to double and triple check the amp/speaker connections to make sure that the speakers aren't "out of phase" due to a speaker connection being reversed. It's an easy mistake to make - especially when working behind equipment in a dimly lit basement. I've done it before and I'll probably do it again. That's why every time I make changes in one of my system, the first thing I do is play a audio diagnostics CD with an in phase/out of phase test. The diagnostics disk has also alerted me to reversed left/right channels more times that I care to admit. Best of luck!

 

Is that a fireplace or a hole in the wall behind the system rack? If so move the system directly across and put the listen position in front of the hole...

 

Ceiling-concrete

 

That is a terrific looking basement!

 

How big is the room?

 

What about trying to set up the speakers using the Sumiko system? Just do a Google search of "Sumiko speaker setup" and you will find many descriptions of the setup method. It takes some patience but for me the results were great. My speakers never sounded better. I am just not sure if it works with the Magnepans, but I believe I've read somewhere that it works.

 

I have Acoustats, very much like the Maggies. The very 1st thing you need to do is heavy duty sound absorption on the wall behind the speakers. That alone will clear up the imaging a great deal. Then the side and rear walls need some kind of treatment — whether it's absorption or diffusion would be up to an expert. Fortunately, many of the companies making acoustic treatment materials offer a free consultation via their web site. The amp & speaker company Decware also has some useful material on room treatment. And I expect Magnepan itself would be interested in giving you some advice. Those Maggies are terrific; they deserve a room that will allow them to bloom, and that room looks like it's more than capable of giving the Maggies a good home.

 

1 more thing, Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" book & DVD is an excellent source of info on tuning a room.

 

Nice room. And you have been successful with the same system in another room. Keep at it.

 

Take a look at GIK panels and their website is good for stereo placement etc. cheaper the DIY. Also Herbie's audio products for vibration control both sell online mfg. direct.

sean

 

What are the room dimensions?
What about it doesn't sound good? Too bright? Distortion?

You have to give us more to go on.

Personally I like the walls, and you have some area rugs which is good. The ceiling could be an issue.

The first thing I would do is move the speakers and couch farther from the wall and more into the center of the room, see if this makes things better

 

Everything in that room is way too close to the walls. Get the speakers farther from both back and side walls and get the couch farther off the back wall. You are hearing as much reflection, maybe more, than direct radiation in that configuration.

 

Thanks so much for all input.

Yes, that was what I thought of first also. But we checked, but they are connected "in phase"

It's a radiator painted black.

Dont know exacty, guess about 5 x 6 meters

Will check that out!

We've tired all sorts of speaker placement, narrow wide, close to back wall, more distacnce to back wall, but not with good results. Its kind of hard to describe. But to much bass or to bright isnt as much of an issue compared to that the sound is very "unfocused" / "blurry". I know, bad description. Yep, others have mentioned the ceiling too.

 

I had the same problem with both Magnepan 1.7 and Martin Logan speakers in the lower level of my home. (Absorption (bass traps in corners/ broadband traps for 1st reflection points)were required to remove ringing /flutter echo problems. I found out it was not my speakers or setup after swapping out different speakers. I would fix your room with traps either DIY or GIK, Realtraps, etc.

 

The room looks almost square with a fairly low ceiling; that's two strikes against you.
If the room is as square as it looks, my suggestion is to set the speakers up diagonally. I had a pair of Maggie 12qrs in a square room and was amazed at how good they sounded when I went with a diagonal configuration. As you are in the experimental stage, it's worth a try.

Bass traps and some absorption is also required with all those reflective surfaces.

 

If starting with room treatments in stages, I would put a couple (bass traps ) in corners behind the Magnepans first. Then add bass traps to the rear corners next. Add 1st reflection broadband traps as needed. It would be great if you have the capability to measure your room with REW software which is available free.

 

Anytime you change the room significantly, you change the sound. I would say arrange the room, with the stereo at least in mind, as it will be...then position things so that they sound best. Else you may work for hours to get it just so, then finish the basement décor and find that it doesn't sound right after all.

 

Yeah, maybe move the couch more towards the center of the room, put the albums along the backwall, angle the speakers in towards the couch a bit.

 

OK, that is actually a good description. I'd lay odds that you are hearing multiple reflections, thus "unfocused" / "blurry". You can try treating the walls as others have suggested. I wouldn't be too concerned about bass traps because the bulk of your problem is mid-band. Personally, I like treatments that diffuse the reflections, you really don't want to deaden the room. These are the ones I use (ASC sound panels) http://www.asc-hifi.com/sound-panel.htm and they do not deaden the room.

The most strategic locations are first order reflections, so on the side walls midway between speakers and listening position and behind the listening position. Those 2 spots should cure %80 of the problem.

 

I think you should start with 1st order reflections, not bass traps. The OP is experiencing "unfocused" sound, that is a mid-band problem, save the bass issues for after you have the reflections worked out.

 

Tell yourself you dont need that 2ft at the back of the room, wall it off and fill it top to bottom wall to wall with pink fluffy fiberglass. My room didnt behave the way I wanted it till I did that , and I had extensive other treatment prior to that.

Of course , you may not want to, or not be able to do that. It is a bit extreme, but there is NO amound of low end treatment you will squeeze in there that will be too much. As long as you take precautions not to make it too dead.

 

Trade-in the Maggies for a good, conventional speaker design. Problem solved.
-Bill