Serious Remakes of Dashiell Hammett & Raymond Chandler

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Khorn, Jan 23, 2022.

  1. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Love to see some really heavily seriously approached
    (non-comedic)
    remakes of film by these writers including Hammett’s Maltese Falcon and Raymond Chandler’s The Big Sleep. Also many other great film noir mysteries.

    Thing is who could convincingly play today’s Sam Spade and Philip Marlowe? Who are today’s Bogarts and Mitchums?
     
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  2. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    Jon Hamm for Marlowe.
     
  3. Holerbot6000

    Holerbot6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I think if you go back and read the books, they are full of humor, particularly Chandler, who could be laugh out loud funny at times. I think John Huston got that when he made Maltese Falcon. The Thin Man series too, as broad as it can be at times, really captures that spirit.
     
  4. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Wife is a serious The Thin Man fan.
    Maybe I should have said more realistic and a little bit darker interpretations for the others.
     
  5. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Senior Member

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    Sam Rockwell probably could pull off Sam Spade or Marlowe. I have to say that I doubt Robert Mitchum's Marlowe in 'Farewell My Lovely' could be bettered. He was Mitchum (not much different than he was in the superb 'Friends of Eddie Coyle') but also... Marlowe.

    Some say he was too old for the part but I disagree - his mental transmission was getting worn out by cynicism. He somehow conveyed that things will not improve.
     
  6. Mosep

    Mosep Senior Member

    Location:
    St.Louis, MO
    With the failure of Nightmare Alley, doubt you'll be seeing many big budget Noir films in the immediate future. Don't worry though, Ant-Man 3: The Revenge of the Mantis will be coming soon to a theater near you.
     
  7. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Mitchum was an absolutely superb actor and I agree with you’re assessment. He was so good in so many films.
     
  8. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    I love movies that use an old feature called dialogue. Mostly what I see are called explosions and crashes coupled with total unrealistic mindlessness. Is it just me??? BTW the last time I jumped from a Mirage fighter onto an airliner I sprained my foot….bummer.
     
  9. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Maybe you're not as aware of the dialogue today because it's mumbled now...

    What would you think of Jonathan Banks? Is he still in the pocket, or has his Breaking Badness overshadowed other roles?
     
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  10. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    I’ve actually noticed that lately and there’s no excuse for it. What a stinking waste of a decent A/V system.
     
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  11. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Based on the descriptions of the characters provided by the authors, I think neither Bogart or Mitchum are good templates for me. Hammett seemed to be describing himself (below) and I get more of a Matt Damon vibe from Chandler.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    Remember that Chandler thought Marlowe's resembled Cary Grant, but perhaps in physique only. Much as I prefer Bogart overall, the actors who speak Chandleresque more easily were Dick Powell and James Garner. It was a shame, in Garner's case, that the film was - for the most part - only so-so.

    Anyhow, your next Philip Marlowe is Liam Neeson in a film based on Benjamin Black's Black-Eyed Blonde. Not the worst of the three post-Chandler novels (that's probably Parker's Big Sleep sequel) but not the best - that's Lawrence Osborne's Only to Sleep. Bearing in mind the age Osborne's Marlowe is meant to be, it might have been better had Neeson played that role. The fact they're shooting Black-Eyed Blonde in Barcelona worriesd me too...
     
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  13. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I never knew that about Cary Grant - I read Chandler’s bio many years ago and don’t remember if that was mentioned - but it seems right. Marlowe was not short, gruff, brusque etc. like Bogart. Too old now, if he’s even still alive, but I always thought Treat Williams would have made a good Marlowe.
     
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  14. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Might not be that popular but I really liked the latest TV sort of “prequel” and more realistic presentation of Gardner’s “Perry Mason”.
     
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  15. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    I would like to see that, as long as it takes place sometime between the 1930s and 1950s. I Don't know if I would want a millennial Philip Marlowe. There was a great Marlowe series on HBO in the 80s starring Powers Boothe, who was very good in the role. In fact, his portrayal was very close to character of the original books and may have been my favorite interpretation of the Marlowe character.

    There was much more source material for Philip Marlowe. Dashiell Hammett only wrote one full length novel featuring Sam Spade, although there were some other short stories with Spade. None of those short stories was made into a full length film. Raymond Chandler completed 7 full Marlowe novels, several of which were made into films over the years starring various actors. I think any Marlowe or Spade project would be better served as a Netflix/Prime/HBO etc. streaming series. If it came down to a major Hollywood production, I fear that the essence of the characters would evaporate.
     
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  16. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I made a point of not seeing this film, which portrayed Marlowe in 1963. The reviews at the time made it sound as though they were really pushing the Marlowe in the 1960s angle. Ugh! Chandler began writing the novel in 1958, writing only four chapters. Robert Parker did a commendable job finishing it.

    I never liked any of the movie versions of Chandler or Hammett novels, with two exceptions (and those are movies merely inspired by the novels) - The Big Lebowski and Miller's Crossing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    If I could pick one Chandler novel to receive a perfect page-to-screen treatment - I know, impossible* - it would be my favorite, The Long Goodbye, which I've read two or three times. (I've read all of Chandler's books at least twice, except for The High Window, and even more if you count all of those John Dalmas stories that became parts of novels.)
    ____________
    * For example, one would need to go back in time and get Peter O'Toole to play Terry Lennox.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
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  18. Tommy Jay

    Tommy Jay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    As a big fan of both Chandler and Hammett's work, I can second the compliments paid to the Powers Boothe "Marlowe" series. Very well made for the time and Boothe was spot on in the Marlowe role. Worth a watch.
     
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  19. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    Even The Maltese Falcon? The 1941 film was astonishingly true to the source material found in the novel, excepting some items that would not have made it past the censors. I always thought of it as one of the best films of all time even before reading the book, but as they say, opinions vary.
     
  20. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    It was true to the original. I guess the reason I did not like it was because I read the novel first then could only see the ways the movie failed to portray the characters in a manner that was described by Hammett . . . Peter Lorre being a clear exception. He was a perfect choice for his role. It was as though he was the only one who had read the book ahead of time. Bogart was nothing like the literary Spade, IMO. I should watch it again one of these days. Maybe I'd change my view.
     
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  21. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    Currently reading the Annotated Big Sleep - and enjoying it.
     
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  22. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Have you tried the 1931 version of The Maltese Falcon with Ricardo Cortez? While not as iconic at the 1941 film, it is quite interesting in its own way. And it's pre-Code, so there were less constraints on placed on the filmmakers.
     
  23. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    I can see that with regard to Bogart, particularly as far as physical characteristics are concerned. However, personally I found Sydney Greenstreet's performance as Kasper Gutman to be almost as effective as Lorre's and I cannot read the book without hearing both of their voices in my head.
     
  24. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Thanks for the responses and the varied outlooks. I’m looking forward to revisiting many of the mentioned.

    It’s great watching a really great movie like so many mentioned here.

    What modern cinematic adaptations of classic mysteries do you deem exceptionally worthy? What remakes would you like to see and with what approach?
     
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  25. Jim N.

    Jim N. Just another day in what was once Paradise...

    Location:
    So Cal
    Mitchum was excellent in both films ("Farewell My Lovely" and the overlooked "Friends of Eddie Coyle"). Both are among his best work.
     
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