Services to transfer SACD to hi-res flac

Are there any commercial services available to transfer SACDs to hi-res PCM flacs? I have read about people using playstations to do this but I don't have any desire to track down the type needed, nor pay what's probably an outrageous amount of ebay money for one. I'd like to send my SACDs somewhere and just have them all done and sent back to me. I'm assuming this would be legal as I'm just making backups of my SACDs. I'm just at the point where file-based audio makes so much more sense than playing silly plastic discs.

 

Never heard of such a service, and I doubt you'd get many entrepreneurs considering this. They'd have Sony's lawyers breathing down their necks, immediately.

I'm 100% file based for my PCM stuff, and have a PS3 that is set up to make backups. I've only done a few so far. The biggest roadblock is what to do with the 5.1 material. I'm not going to bother with just ripping the 2.0 DSD layer and neglecting the surround (I'm set up for surround SACD). Even if I convert the 5.1 DSD to 24/176.4 FLAC, I don't have a networked music streamer that can accomodate such a format.

So, it's a bit of a chicken-or-egg scenario right now. Although my PS3 is ready to eat some SACDs and spit out files, when necessary!!

 

It's actually not legal to do, in the US. As of late 2012, it's still in violation of DMCA to rip any content that uses DRM. That would include DVD, Blu-ray and SACD's as well (redbook CD's, in contrast, have no DRM - thus ripping tools are 100% legal). There are a few exceptions to this, but I believe personal usage for backups is not one of them - don't shoot the messenger!

Even if you did find a local ripping service that skirts around the DMCA, it's likely that it would only handle things like DVD's -- SACD's are already a niche product to begin with.

 

I copied mine using the analog output. I see a day in the future when playing these discs will be difficult, so it is better to have a slightly deficient copy, than no copy.

Equipment used - M-audio Firewire 1814. The outputs from my SACD player are a little hot - putting a line level attenuator brings things down to safe levels.

 

I've been debating using the analog hole to record my SACD's not unlike a needle drop. I only have a few SACD's so it wouldn't take me much time.

The analog hole, just by its very nature, is not illegal (in the US) as you aren't bypassing any DRM protection to record it - you're just recording what you hear. And fair use permits the actual backing up of non-protected content, so I believe this is all on the up-and-up. I think.

 

As others have mentioned - personal backups or not - you cannot legally circumvent the data protection on the SACD disc.

VP

 

Hi Res downloads from HDtracks etc are probably your best bet.

@Thurenity : A purchased download Hi Res flac file from a place like HDtracks can match Hi Res I rip & convert from sacd which I think negates your DRM argument.

 

HDTracks has no DRM protection. It's actually one of the things that they advertise about their service. The SACD format, in contrast, uses DRM, so the DCMA applies there. Unfortunately.

This is one of those things I don't get bent out of shape about, as no one is going to know if you have a modded PS3 at home, ripping your SACD's. As long as it's for personal use, of course. But the OP is looking for a third-party service to do this, so I doubt those exist just because of the potential legal issues. And actually, if the OP did find a service I would ask the HOW part, as in how they are ripping it. If it's a small number of SACD's the service could actually be using the analog hole to record, which anyone could do.

 

So I guess it's ok for HDtracks to rip SACDs and sell them to us, but I can't rip my own? Also, I would gladly repurchase them and sell the SACDs but I don't see the titles I want like Depeche Mode, Roxy Music Avalon, or a few of the others that are expensive and hard to find on SACD. Hey they have all the common crap like Rolling Stones which are still everywhere in used stores.

I too am concerned about finding decent players in the future and these discs do take up valuable space and it is a hassle when compared to just using my iPhone to cue up an album on my Squeezebox.

Oh, another thing, I don't exactly trust the provenance of HDtracks, at least if I had these done myself I'd know. I fear a lot of the HDtracks stuff is upsampled redbook which doesn't add any value.

 

You're confusing a company that has a business relationship with the labels in comparison to a regular consumer. They've done all the licensing agreements prior to offering the hi-res files for sale.

Technically, you could contact the label of the SACD you own and ask for permission to transcode it to a digital file and circumvent DRM. If they give you approval, then it's probably legal to do it. But you aren't HDTracks so I don't know if they would give the OK.

Not saying a disagree with your argument, though -- I think it makes no sense that DRM bypass is against the law but backing up personal content is allowed, using the Fair Use clause. It's like telling someone that they can walk into a house to grab their coat, but the door is locked and if you pick the lock to get in to get access to your coat, you're breaking the law.

 

Where are you getting any indicator that HD Tracks is "ripping SACD's?" All of their material is licensed and supplied to them by record companies for them to sell. And sure - any purchased HDTracks file could certainly match up perfectly with a home brewed SACD ripped track - but that's probably because the source file supplied to them is the same source as was placed on SACD.

Lets not start getting visions of the HD Tracks guys sitting in some backroom with a hacked PS3 player , drinking beer while waiting for a rip to finish.

VP

 

Well, if HDtracks was more forthcoming with provenance then I wouldn't be speculating on their sources, and I'd probably be a customer. I don't like that it's a mystery. They could get licensing approval and just rip things from existing hi-res sources which would make sense seeing as most of the titles they offer are found on existing DVD-A's and SACDs, or they could really be innovative and get the original master tapes from the label and do a hi-res transfer, but that won't happen because it's what all of us WANT. The fact that they sell 24/192 files of things that were never higher than 16/44.1 on the master tape lead me to believe they are ok with the practice of upsampling. Who is to say that a lot of what they sell isn't just upsampled redbook. Show some provenance and all these questions disappear.

The same thing is happening in vinyl reissues, labels like Plain, 1972, 4MWB, etc. are obtaining the rights but then using redbook CDs for the source material. It's a win-win for the labels, they get money and they don't have to open the vaults. Cashing checks is much easier than doing hi-res transfers and marketing it yourself.

I guess I'll just have to find one of those PS3s and learn how to rip SACDs and then hide in fear of the RIAA finding out that I wanted a more convenient way to listen to something I already paid money for.

 

No fears for playing music you own in your home.

Two points though:

While we can convert dsdff to pcm, some claim it should be played through a dsd capable dac because converted pcm sounds wonky. My two good ears call b/s on that based on my 150 sacds converted to flac which sound awesome through my 24/192 Bifrost. Not that I wouldn't mind springing for a dsd dac but for now I'm springing for more dsd.

Second, we can't hear multi-channel from ripping or downloading so that should be considered too. I'm not dedicated to multi-channel but some of it is quite good. For example, some of the dsd i'm expecting on my door step are more 3.1 RCA Living Stereo sacds. Tasty stuff that'll get ripped to 2.0 but not 3.1.

Check your local Game Stop for a scad capable ps3 - don't know if they're still out there but that's where I scored one a year ago for $220.

 

The problem with the Game Stop idea is not the units themselves, but if the firmware had been upgraded or not - SONY plugged the alternate OS hole about 2 years ago. So if one buys from there, just make sure that they have a good return policy in case you get one that has newer firmware.

And agree about the RIAA - they can't come after you if what you do is in the privacy of your own home. How are they going to know? Don't upload the rips to file-sharing sites and I'm pretty sure you'll stay off their radar.

 

Excellent point - the os has to be 3.55 or less. They actually verified they had one over the phone before i went there.

 

Actually... I don't know about the beer part, but there was a post from Bruce Brown at Puget Sound Studios saying "We've been ripping SACD's for about 3 years now for HDtracks."

 

Yes, that is correct. I've been doing this since '08 for them. Didn't use a PS3 though!


Regards,
Bruce

 

I recall a post from Bruce Brown at a different site, where he acknowledged specifically that the Mercury Living Presence downloads from HDTracks were SACD rips.

 

I realize you probably can't tell us details, but you must have be doing this conversion via analog out of a SACD player.

 

I've explained the procedure in several of the forums I've posted in.
You can read more about it here:

Ripping SACDs the right way

 

Quite incredible. Thanks for sharing.

 

As sold, both Meitner and Playback Designs encrypt the DSD output, but this can be defeated via remote control commands (and they only tell Pros working with DSD how to do this!). The digital output can then be captured using a DSD workstation (Sonoma, Pyramix, SADiE), and, as Bruce Brown describes, is 100% accurate (I've tested this with Gus Skinas using a Meitner player, Meitner converters, and Sonoma using DSD master files and pressed SACDs).

 

I've obtained a first generation PS3 with firmware 3.50 recently. I was able to apply the firmware and software to back up my SACD's. The ripping is slow compared to ripping CD's on a PC, but the results are perfect. The resluting ISO can be burned to a DVDR and played back on some models of SACD players such as the OPPO players. I'm currently in the process of backing up my own SACD's for playback on my HTPC. I'm sure this costs much less than buying a DSD workstation.

A_L

 

Good-luck!

 

If you don't mind going to PCM, get a player that output SACDs as 88/24 via the HDMI. You can then use an Altona box which costs somewhere around $200 to output the PCM via a coax or toslink. You can then send this to your HDD. I haven't done this but some folks over at Audio Circle used this method in the past.