Setting proper anti-skating for 78 rpm playback?

I have never setup a turntable for use in playing back 78 rpm discs.

When setting anti-skating for microgroove records, I use the Hi Fi News Test LP, and if needed then tweak further with music.

While I doubt it, are there any test records with such tones for optimizing anti skating at 78? I know I can setup this aspect of the arm for microgroove with the above LP, but besides the large difference in speed, the styli will be different along with the associated tracking force, so that obviously will be useless.

If no standard groove 78 test discs are out there, are there any suggestions as to what I use to dial this in? Just use music, I'm guessing...

Thanks!

 

You really don't need to use anti skate when playing 78's. The heavier tracking weight(I use a stylus with my Dual 1019 that allows between 2-7g and I'm normally between 3-4g) will alleviate any need for AS.

 

Thanks Sam.

I should add, these are going to be transcription discs. Does that change your opinion at all? It's going to use a Shure M97 with custom styli - I'm not sure of the tracking weight yet, but I don't think it's going to be on that heavy vs. some 78 playback.

 

You mean 16 RPM discs? At that slow speed, there should be very little arm skating happening anyway.

 

16" 78 rpm radio transcriptions, Glenn.

The custom styli will be for standard (instead of micro) groove, in a few sizes.

 

You likely won't be able to track a 78rpm disc with the Shure M97 at the typical tracking range that is recommended for original cartridge/stylus combination. You'll need to adjust for the optimal tracking weight of the custom stylus. Ask the manufacturer of the custom stylus what they recommend. I use custom styli from Expert Stylus in the UK and they recommend running their styli at 3.5 grams on my Shure cartridge. (I use the Shure M44-G cartridge for my 78s, which normally tracks LPs around 1.5 grams with it's stock microgroove stylus.)

Personally, I find there are very few 78rpm styli that can track well (if at all) under 2 grams. 78s are too rough, too uneven, and spin too fast for a light-tracking stylus to stay in the groove. A tiny warp (that wouldn't be an issue on an LP) will launch the stylus out of the groove on a 78 if the tracking weight isn't adjusted to compensate. This will be especially important if the discs are larger than 10-inches. For example, the outside grooves of a 12-inch disc move faster under the stylus than the outside grooves of a 10-inch disc. I am often increasing the tracking on larger sized discs that aren't perfectly flat, just to keep the needle in the groove.

Also, it's important to remember that a needle mistracking at 2 grams will do far more damage to a disc than a needle tracking correctly at 7 grams! If in doubt, run a little heavy instead of running too light.

To get back to the original question, I don't worry much about adjusting the anti-skate when I run at 78rpm. I found that it does very little, but your mileage may vary. It doesn't hurt to make adjustments and listen to playback to check for a difference in sound. But don't lose sleep over it.

 

My mistake...these discs are at 33 1/3, though are not microgroove. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Given that, any ideas re initially setting anti-skating? Thank you all so far.

 

The reason for anti-skate is to counter-act the torque created at the pivot point by the offset of the tone arm. It's like pulling the rope on a lawn mower - it causes the flywheel to spin. It is usually set to the stylus tracking weight, with conical and elliptical styli requiring different settings because the drag in the groove (which creates the torque) is different for different stylus profiles. Anti-skate is very useful for tracking 78's that skip or repeat. Set it to the stylus weight. If it skips, apply more anti-skate, if it sticks, back it off a bit. If it plays okay, then there is nothing to worry about.

 

I'll start there, Jim - thanks. With these styli, I'm guessing it'll be close and I can always tweak a little further. I'm so used to using a Microridge and variants of them for LPs, and they don't need too much anti-skating...

 

Remember that stylus size, not tracking force, is the single most important thing about working with 78's. A microgroove is 1.0 mil, and you can get away with a 0.7 mil (modern stylus). Wide-groove 78's are anywhere from 2 to 4 mil, with different sizes yielding different levels of playback noise. Smaller stylus = more groove "whoosh". Bigger = more clicks and pops. I've found 3.0 mil is a good all-around stylus for 78's.

Good luck!

JB

 

If these are 33 1/3 transcription discs, the optimal stylus size is likely 2.5 mil for most discs (in good shape). Some of the later transcriptions will work well with a 2.0 mil stylus. If the discs are worn, try moving up to 3.0 mil stylus to ride above the wear line.

 

Which is the size of a Shure M78S. But I've found that stylus to be way too compliant to work well with 78's. Might work well with 33's, though.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Shure M87S myself for use on 78s. I prefer a Stanton 500 or Shure M44 series cartridge with custom styli. I usually start at 3.0 mil and work my way up from there.

 

The M78S stylus is actually 2.5 mil. 78s sound fantastic with it on my 1019.

There is no such thing as a cartridge/stylus being too compliant as long as the arm is compatible. The M78S was designed specifically for 78s.

Doug