Shall i try a tube amp?

Good advice. Used, and less than 10 years old, I'd add.

My first tube amp (well, receiver, really) was 35 years old when I bought it. It took several hundred dollars and a couple of months to get it safely singing again. When you start looking at that degree of used, be prepared to spend on bringing up to code.

 

After 40 years I never heard a solid-state amp sound as good as tube amps. But, that is upgraded tube amps. However some stock tube amps do kill any solid-state amps. Marantz model 8 come to mind, but at $3K. Rebuilt vintage can cost under $1K and jus kill sonically most solid-state amps with good tube friendly speakers. Keep in mind a SS amp that sounds as good as a tube amp must be out there somewhere. Perhaps a great class D amp or that called 'first watt' amp that audiophiles build.

Tubes are, at first, a PITA. They need the best tubes and those cost a lot. But, if you want best sound, I believe the only path is tube amps. PM me if interested. I can help you choose a great vintage tube amp and rebuild & upgrade it for you. Vintage tube amps have tone controls and those are necessary to tune to your speakers and the listening room. I do not think anyone except one person can make amps sound as good of myself. I just have so many years experience (not bragging).

 

Most tube amps produce under 2% distortion at full volume and you can not hear 2%. Listening less than full volume is less than 2%. Likely under 1%. So, high distortion is 'out the window' for any less than junk quality tube amplifiers.

 

That and most of the distortion is innocuous 2nd-order harmonics.

 

2nd order for single-ended amps & 3rd order for push-pull tube amps. Push-pull tube amps cancel 2nd order distortion by design.

 

I feel like I ask myself this question at least once a day.

 

If vintage is out, then get a new under warranty Yaqin M13S for $700 shipped and add a tube phono stage amplifier. New amps are without tone controls though.

 

There are good SS and good tube amps. If you aren’t sure whether or why you should try a tube amp it is hard for me recommend you buy one.

Everything is synergy. There are vast considerations needed with tube amps in the midst of ‘synergy’ in an audio chain.

 

Stereophile measurements of push-pull designs reveal that most distortion is still 2nd order.

 

Just took at a look at your speakers in your profile. You’ve got speakers that will certainly be appropriate with a wide range of tube amps. That’s a big start.

 

Yes, but at what level? It is extremely lower than single-ended amps. Again, push pull cancels 2nd order distortion. Some 2nd order can slip thru due to less than perfect matching tubes and less than perfect audio transformer design, etc.

 

Yes, tube friendly and the Revel M22s do not dip below 4 ohms. My tube amp audio transformers are also rather high in primary impedance keeping distortion low at those 4 ohm speaker dips.

 

I Can't speak as to what produces what. I just recall that many push-pull designs they've measured have 2nd order as the dominant distortion type.

The following is an excerpt from one of their bench tests. And prior to this paragraph they praised the quality of its transformers:

However, the actual distortion is composed almost entirely of the relatively innocuous low-order harmonics (fig.10). At low frequencies, the third harmonic predominates in Ultralinear mode (fig.11) but is the same level as the second harmonic in Triode mode (fig.12)—but the odd-order harmonics drop rapidly in the midrange, leaving the second the dominant harmonic, even in Ultralinear mode (fig.13).
Read more at Cayin A-50T integrated amplifier Measurements

 

You read wrong info, push-pull amps have dominate 3rd order distortion unless designed to be unbalanced as in the case of the Cary Rocket tube amp. 2nd order is more pleasing to the ear. That is why many audiophiles use single-ended amps that produce dominate 2nd order vs 3rd order harmonic distortion. It is not me making statements, it is simply the design. I personally have nothing to do with it.

The Cayin 3nd order is dominate at an insane -75dB below. You can not hear it. A record on a quiet TT in a dead zone (playing no music) is around minus 60-70dB. That is extremely clean. A single-ended amp is like -30dB below regarding 2nd order. If the push pull amp did not cancel 2nd order, it would be also -30dB below the fundamental. My post does not mean push-pull amps always make 3rd order more than 2nd order distortion, they are about the same. The Cayin 3rd order is only -5DB less and it is less due to there is not near the energy compared to 2nd order harmonics. It is actually amplifying 2nd order less than 3rd order as the 3rd order is not there near as much. Understand? I am talking about push-pull vs single-ended amps.

 

Ugh between all my guitar tube amps I was hoping I could avoid tubes in the stereo world. Lol.

I already figured out how to mod my guitar amps , bias etc. not again with stereo amps. Ha.

 

The water is fine, jump right in.

I would echo the recommendation of others and suggest a push pull integrated based on the el34 or el86 tube. It will probably have enough power to drive the speakers you have, and the tubes are plentiful and affordable. Next, upgrade to some sensitive speakers so that you can eventually move to an SET amp if you chose (you probably will).

 

I guess it depends upon how much work you will do to get the best playback sound. Personally, I will work my ass off. I may have 10 hours labor in upgrading a tube amp. But have 1000s of hours listening to it.

 

Nah I’m not gonna get into learning stereo tube amps. Not that interested.

But I’m sure the tube stereo amp will bite me.
Tubes are for sure the best.

I just don’t know if they can offer as much attack compared to a SS amp for stereos?

 

I am not technical, I listen with my ears and heart. I think that if you are asking this question, you need to satisfy your curiosity. Or die wondering.

However interesting these subjects may be, you do not need to know anything about 2nd order harmonics, tube rolling, attack or decay. I have never tube-rolled, I just enjoy the sound. (FWIW, I tweaked far more when I ran solid-state!) You don't need to know about how they work and the variables to own an electric car.

If you are really unsure, you might want to try a valve phono stage in the meantime? But yeah, if you go ahead, it has to match your speakers.
My 2c

 

Klipsch

 

You live only once.

It is better to try tube amp if you are curious.

Used Prima Luna or new Kinko from Hong Kong within 1.5K USD will be good starting point.

 

They can actually exceed SS amps in that regard, as well as bass impact and definition. Until I got a Rogue Stereo 100, my SS Yamaha provided the best bass I had experienced in my system - ousting quite a few other well regarded integrateds - even Rogue's class D hybrids. The KT120 Stereo 100 trumps them all. Even so, I "downgraded" back to a Cronus Magnum because I find it more musical and engaging.

I'd start with something like one of the $2K Line Magnetics. They're built like tanks and manual biasing with the built-in meters is a cinch.

 

Cool. Yeah I can bias with a probe no problem. It’s easy.

I know I’ll get bitten. Tubes are superior.

 

A little more warmth. I feel my system could do with a bit more warmth.

 

Warmth has a different meaning for different people, I have found. Can you be more specific?