Shibata vs MicroLine

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by old music lover, Jan 27, 2022.

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  1. old music lover

    old music lover Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Salonta, Romania
    Hello everybody...I know, this is not the first time this topic has been discussed...Some say Shibata would be better, others like MicroLine...
    1. Based on my experience, I say that Shibata has a wider frequency range, but the sound seems more analytical, somehow the sound is CD like... Microline sounds warmer. But basically, considering the various records, new or old, I think both are needed.
    2. I also noticed that Shibata reads the information in the ditch better, with less influence due to disk wear.
    I ask colleagues who have both options to try to explain from their experience what I have presented above,
    especially number 2, presenting concretely what are the cartridges with which the evaluation was made...

    PS...the are maybe some mistakes in my text, sorry...
     
  2. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com

    Location:
    UK
    As far as I understand it, the sound of a Shibata will gradually change as it wears. I believe AT rate Shibata life at 800 hours. Microline such as AT or JICO SAS should have a more consistent sound until the ridge is gone at about a thousand hours, according to AT literature.

    I have used JICO SAS, AT VM540ML and AT VM95SH. I will be sticking to microline from now on. I think the extra life and performance make them better value, but I understand that some prefer the ever-changing sounds of a Shibata.
     
  3. MikeJedi

    MikeJedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I thought Shibata was supposed to be less anylytical and microline is more analytical ? Or do I have that wrong ? :)
     
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  4. Spica

    Spica Easy like Sunday morning

    Location:
    UK/Cyprus
    I find the exact opposite to the OP when I listen. Microline has more analytical and bright sound. It can be relentless. Shibata has fruitier bass, wider soundstage and is more relaxed. I prefer Shibata.

    just sharing my own experience: No claims to universal truth :)

    As I understand it, Microline has a wear pattern that has less negative influence on sound and tracking. Also longer lifespan due to greater contact area.
     
  5. VinylSoul

    VinylSoul Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lake Erie
    AT says Shibata has improved bass over Microline and ML has longer life span.
    Both can sound excellent.
     
  6. MikeJedi

    MikeJedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I wonder if the Shibata 750sh would be harder to set up because it’s a Shibata on say my 1200G. But I have read a lot that actually the Shibata aren’t that hard really to set up … so definitely some conflicting reports in that but the sound signature is def not anylytical which was what I thought ! :). I am considering one to go with my JC3 Jr and 1200G and Yammie AS2200 :)
     
  7. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    That seems to me the wrong way round. I find ML to be brighter with less body and leaner bass. Shibata has more warmth and fuller presentation while maintaining top end detail. Think it combines the best of microline and elliptical presentation. I think emphasis of disc problems between the two profiles is much dependent on any particular record. ML seems worse with non-fill.
     
  8. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    The profile of the stylus is far from the only only variable in the sound of a cart. I have a 2m black and a koetsu rosewood. One being a MM and the other a LOMC, attributing the differences in sound to the shape of their stylus would be wrong. A micro line can sound bright as well as a shibata. I do fun a micro line consistently picks up less surface noise and lasts a a bit longer. Or at least can on a regular basis.
     
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  9. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    As I want to hear as much detail as possible from my records, after all its on the recordings for a reason Id always go ML.
     
    Danilo likes this.
  10. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Do you have the 2 mixed up? Because general opinion is usually the other way round as some posters allready noted!
     
  11. old music lover

    old music lover Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Salonta, Romania
    I made a few rips of my records and listened very carefull both options (Shibata/ML) in Soundforge with the same skills...
    Both needles were in good condition...The cartridges were Sony XL-45 with Shibata stylus and AT 33PTG/II.
     
  12. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith.

    Location:
    Oregon
    I did a direct comparison in my own home with the Audio Technica VM95ML and VM95SH (I created this thread w/ my impressions-
    Audio Technica VM95ML vs. VM95SH, generically) and fell head-long in love w/ the robustness of the SH between those 2 carts. I think they're both excellent styli and that it comes down to personal preference. My impressions from my comparison left me thinking that the ML is better suited for ultimate detail retrieval, an analytical depth, and better treble extension while the SH brought gusto, swagger, and what I consider to be an addictive musicality. ML puts you in the front row giving you incredible focus, SH is a couple of rows back offering a broader soundscape.
    To each their own.
     
  13. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think a lot depends on the generator and the rest of the implementation (by the cartridge/stylus manufacturer, details like the type of cantilever, suspension/compliance, etc.), and how they're loaded (capacitance and resistance).

    I don't know whether you can make too many generalizations about the sound of one vs. the other, it would seem Micro-Ridge/-Line/SAS would outlast other line contacts due to the nature of wear.

    I like and use them all.
     
  14. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    You should probably only compare 2 identical carts with different styli and not 2 different cartridges. This explains why you have an opposite view from most of us.
    It's not only the styli of the carts that are different with you, but you use 2 totally different cartridges!
     
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  15. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I'll always walk the Line.
     
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  16. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Many state that yes.
     
  17. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    I think its neither, the difference between each is barely worth mentioning at all, but the ML tracks better for sure.

    OPs post just demonstrates it perfectly too, some say the SH is the analytical and cold while others say vice versa.
    Its completely contradictory and I assume neither are correct.
     
  18. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Never understood why hearing as much detail as possible from a recording is considered cold and a bad thing.
     
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  19. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Sometimes people call something more detailed, but its just brighter overall so you hear more of the higher frequencies. If that loses out on some bass, that might be why.
     
    The FRiNgE and Technocentral like this.
  20. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The cartridges could not be more different, the PTG is a MC (with a Boron cantilever?) and the Sony originally (a MM) had a carbon fiber clad aluminum cantilever (IDK what the Jico replacement uses), People REALLY like the PTG so I would expect that to sound great but I wouldn't know much of what to expect from the vintage Sony.
     
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  21. jeff kleinberg

    jeff kleinberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Ct
    I believe FL/ML also have a larger contact patch with the groove that wears in a way that the contact area remains large, thus the 2g tracking force is distributed over a larger area extending vinyl life. Unlike the larger profiles like elliptical, that have continuously decreasing contact patch area as the cart wears. Thus increasing record wear, it almost seems counter intuitive, as you would think a 3*70 profile would put more force on the groove.
     
  22. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I see what you mean but more detail wins for me, I think I've good detail and bass on my system with the ml, at least I'm happy with the balance.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  23. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Im not one who believes either sounds very different so sure, but depending on how one defines detail I might prefer more bass instead. Hard to say exactly.
     
    Technocentral likes this.
  24. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith.

    Location:
    Oregon
    I politely disagree. The differences between the 95ML and SH in my house were very distinguishable. One can say that's just the variance in any given cartridge's manufacturing, and I'd agree there is some variability there, but in my house, to my ears, the differences were not subtle and I attribute it to the different styli, not the fact that they're just 2 different cartridges.
     
  25. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    A lot of people equate more detail to a tipped-up top end and thin bottom end. But this need not be true at all.
     
    tryitfirst and bever70 like this.
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