Shortest creative phase in a long career

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Claus, Jul 6, 2002.

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  1. Claus

    Claus Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    I think there are a lot of groups, which are on the road more than 30 years, but they had only a very short creative phase.

    For example: Deep Purple (70-72), ELP (69-72), Yes (69-72), ZZ Top (76-79) and more...
     
  2. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    yes????
     
  3. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Alice Cooper (71-75), Jefferson Airplane ('66-69), Chicago ('68-74), Eagles ('74-76) - I guess everyones milage may vary, I would have tacked on 3 more years on Yes, and 2 more on ELP - but the point is the same...

    Many acts never show the CONSISTENCY they did in their heyday, but there are often "sparks". I would also site Elvis Cotello '77-82, but I am enjoying the latest one..
     
  4. Claus

    Claus Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    I think a very good exception are the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix... and my favorite guitarplayer Joe Satriani.
     
  5. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Marshall Crenshaw:D
     
  6. Ian

    Ian Active Member

    Location:
    Milford, Maine
    I would definitely have to add Rod Stewart '68 - '73. Also throw in Black Sabbath '70 - '73, Van Halen '78 - '84, Aerosmith '73 - '76 with brief spurts in '85 and '89, Allman Brothers '69 - '71 and Kate Bush '77 - '85 (Although she records so infrequently (9 years since the massively dissapointing "The Red Shoes") it almost doesn't count).
     
  7. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    I posted this to the Kinks' mailing list years ago.

    I wish that someone capable would develop a "life cycle" scheme for
    composers. Here comes an skeleton. See if this fits your favorites. Feel
    free to consider the following either as a joke or as serious thoughts.

    I'd say that good (and lucky!) composers pass through several phases, just
    as people. Let's call them Early, Before Prime, Prime, After Prime, Maturity.

    In the Early phase composers produce mostly run-of-the-mill material with
    lots of flashes that hint of a great genius. The composer at this time is
    unable to produce good songs "at will". But his/her muse comes out anyway.
    Example: all Beatles, Kinks, Who, Stones early albums.

    In the Before Prime period, the composer is more confident, and is able to
    recognize what is good and what is not. But he is undisciplined enough to
    include a lot of quirks that make his/her works deeply amenable. In this
    period, they produce the most enjoyable songs. You listen to these records
    effortlessly, time and time again. Example: VGPS, Preservation Act I, Zep's
    I to IV.

    Prime: The composer is still enthusiastic and perhaps still poor. Has
    gained enough maturity/discipline to produce good songs regularly, and puts a lot of energy into it. Very few quirks, they are susbtitued by
    "experiments", which are mostly cerebral and not coming from inspiration.
    You "wow" over the albums, but you don't listen to them much. Example:
    Preservation II, Physical Grafitti, The White Album.

    After Prime: The main sign is lack of energy. The composer becomes jaded.
    If he's rich and wants to keep composing, he will only aim to please
    himself. And it shows. In lots of cases, old-fartdom sets in. Examples: all
    Sir Paul solo material. No Kinks period that would fit clearly here.
    Perhaps because they were not rich after their prime?.

    Maturity: Most never get here, but remain After Primers till they retire or
    die. Quirks return and are clever enough to pass for inspiration. Songs are
    good but do not smell of spontaneity but of craftmanship. But they are
    enjoyable, except to those that are being introduced to his work. Those
    inmediately recognize the lack of a powerful muse. Long-time followers feel
    the composer has returned to his best period. Example: Animal, To The Bone (the song).
     
  8. peterC

    peterC Aussie Addict

    Location:
    sydney
    Despite his reputation, Robbie Robertson had a very short creative period.........but what a period it was!
     
  9. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    peter,

    What are you saying mate? Have you listened to "Contact from the Underworld of Red Boy" (1998)?

    All of Robertson's solo efforts are a testament to the man's musical creativity. Let's see - that's 1968 (forgetting about the 10 years before that with Ronnie Hawkins) to 1998. Thirty years. Jeez.

    Regards,
    Metralla
     
  10. peterC

    peterC Aussie Addict

    Location:
    sydney
    Metralla, I'm guilty as charged, but...........

    1. How "creative" was he during his Hawkins apprenticeship? (That's a genuine question because I don't know). I assumed he was basically just a backup musician.
    2. It's difficult to listen to his newer stuff when I've been turned off him by previous solo efforts. I bought his first two solo albums but for me no amount of atmospheric production can hide the weak material and a really bad voice. Just my view of course!

    Strangely I was also turned off him a little by his personality in the Last Waltz movie.
     
  11. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I would add Boston (76 - 78, though some would just say '76).

    As for ZZ Top, you may not like Eliminator, but it's power cannot be denied. Well, maybe if you exclude "TV Dinners" :). It's the album that got them dubbed "the Kingpins of Cactus Crunch"! Plus I only listened to it about 1000 times when I was 13.

    And this one's sure to ruffle some feathers. Jimi Hendrix, 66 - 68. Many say he was on the verge of an artistic breakthrough with the Band of Gypsys album and what he was recording for "First Rays of the New Rising Sun", but I think he was (understandably) burnt out from endless touring & recording, and his lyrics and music were nowhere near as meaningful and powerful as those of his Experience albums IMHO. I also can't help but think how much I don't like Buddy Miles' drumming. Not to say I'm not a big fan of Jimi's later work... But I think it pales in comparison. Now where he was headed creatively, unfortunately we'll never know :(
     
  12. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    peter,

    You are correct about the Hawkins years. I did not mean to imply he was writing at that stage, and that's why I said we should forget about those 10 years.

    I'm sorry you didn't like the first two solo jobs, and I confess that I think they are great. So I am pretty biased on RR. There is just something about him that appeals to me. I sometimes fantasized that in a previous life I was a native American (a common fantasy I'm sure) and for some reason I relate to Robbie Robertson. His "Music For Native Americans" strikes a chord in me.

    I know the Last Waltz reference. I choose to ignore many things about an artist's life and focus on their musical output. When the muse is at their shoulder, and they are plugged into the cosmos, they open a window into our beings, not because of who they may be in life, but in spite of that. They transcend their physical being and create works that help us escape our earthly shackles, and take flight.

    --------------------------
    Are you out there
    Can you hear me
    Can you see me in the dark

    I don't believe it's all for nothing
    It's not just written in the sand
    Sometimes I thought you felt too much
    And you crossed into the shadowland

    And the river was overflowing
    And the sky was fiery red
    You gotta play the hand that's dealt ya
    That's what the old man always said

    Fallen Angel
    Casts a shadow up against the sun
    If my eyes could see
    The spirit of the chosen one

    In my dream the pipes were playing
    In my dream I lost a friend
    Come down Gabriel and blow your horn
    'Cause some day we will meet again

    Robbie Robertson - "Fallen Angel"

    Regards,
    Geoff
     
  13. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    Yes had their best years from 70 to 77 but they have had some very strong albums from time to time since then. The Ladder was excellent.
     
  14. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    i'll respectfully disagree with the robbie robertson post about his short creative period.

    you must not have heard any of his 4 solo records or any of soundtrack work.

    renny
     
  15. Joseph

    Joseph Senior Member

    From what I've heard, Robbie Robertson also turned off the rest of The Band. The other members felt that he took credit and ownership for lots of music that the whole band created.
     
  16. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    I have to agree with the nays re: Robbie Robertson's solo albums. The tracks go on entirely too long; the best cuts turn out to be collaborations ("Fallen Angel"); and texture and atmosphere have replaced songwriting. And frankly, he shouldn't sing for an entire album.

    The Band managed to get three albums of great material out (MUSIC FROM BIG PINK, THE BAND, and their half of BASEMENT TAPES). That's three more than 99.9% of all the other bands on the planet, past and present.
     
  17. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    I'll toss Little Richard in here - 2 blistering years (the boxed set doesn't let up - wish I had the geets for the Ace UK one with all the naughty chat!); Jerry Lee Lewis was red hot for a few years, cut a mountain of stuff for Sun that all bears his stamp; the later fame with the country stuff ain't my cuppa joe...
     
  18. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    I consider The Kinks to have one of the longest, most boring After Prime periods in rock history, from SCHOOLBOYS IN DISGRACE until. . .whatever their latest is.

    I think at this point on your evolutionary scale you're referring to decadence, in that an artist tries to please only himself; he's got the catalog and loyal audience core to do what he wants.

    But I think a lot of artists also slide into hackwork, during which they give the audience what they want and cash in, either by rewriting their most popular work, or jumping on the latest trend and accompanying a hot producer to the studio. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as I'd much rather listen to David Bowie's hackwork LET'S DANCE, to Lou Reed's decadent BERLIN, or, God forbid, Pete Townsend's ALL THE BEST COWBOYS HAVE CHINESE EYES.

    I think after PRESERVATION, The Kinks really didn't have anything to say. They did cash in with LOW BUDGET through STATE OF CONFUSION, managing to play arenas with their very by-the-numbers show. Saw 'em go through the motions at D.C.'s Capital Center myself; I don't think the set list varied from the live album a bit, right down to the Belafonte call-and-response to the encores. And the album they were supporting was called GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT.

    Ray Davies may get here yet. I think Van Morrison has obviously reached a state-of-grace maturity. Some fans consider HYMNS TO THE SILENCE and TOO LONG IN EXILE among his best work. No new ground is broken, but the artist performs with such conviction and authority that even his earlier, groundbreaking work seems a little unformed or tentative. See also Ray Charles or Elvis Presley. Perhaps this period favors great performers over great writers.
     
  19. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    He didn't make any records from 1977 to 1986, did he? That's a long dry spell in the middle of those 30 years.

    Levon Helm is the only Band member who has publicly made comments to that effect. Rick and Garth apparently have (had) no hard feelings toward Robertson, and both of them had cameos on his first solo album. And to be fair, Levon's claim that the Band should receive songwriting royalties for contributing to the arrangements of songs is pretty unprecedented. If they deserve royalties, so do George, Ringo and George Martin for the Lennon/McCartney songs, Bill and Charlie for the Jagger/Richards catalog, etc.
     
  20. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The funny thing is we all have differing opinions on when someone passes their prime. To me, the Kinks' "After Prime" period would start with "Everybody's in Showbiz", an album that marked the beginning of (to me anyway) their 70s decline. And I find a lot more to enjoy on some of their Arista albums (Misfits, State of Confusion, Word of Mouth) than Preservation Act II or Soap Opera.

    Similarly, I think Pete Townshend passed his prime after Who's Next. After that, his writing became much more self-conscious and contrived, although still sometimes quite good. I've never understood the popularity of Quadrophenia, my least favorite of the Who albums with Keith Moon.
     
  21. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    czeskleba,

    After buying The Altlantic gold cd of Empty Glass, I'd have to disagree with you as there are quite a few excellent Townshend tunes on this one. After this album, sadly I'd have to agree.
     
  22. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    John Denver's peak period of "brilliance" to most people was from the late 1960's to about 1977, although he still managed to put out very good music including "Shanghai Breezes" and my favorite of his 1980's recordings, "Some Days are Diamonds"
     
  23. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    Also for most people, Gordon Lightfoot's period of brilliance was from 1966-1976 although he still continued to put out fine music ever since and has matured as an artist as "A Painter Passing Through" is an excellent album which is as good as his 60's-70's albums even if a few songs aren't among his best work, overall, there are a lot of gems on it.
     
  24. peterC

    peterC Aussie Addict

    Location:
    sydney
    ...and Renny, you mustn't have read my posts all the way through!!:D
     
  25. CM Wolff

    CM Wolff Senior Member

    Location:
    Motown
    You can argue that the Ramones' first four albums were their burst of creativity and that everything that followed them really just reworked the approach of those albums, adjusted slightly for the times (e.g. their veer towards metal in the later years).

    Similarly, the Pretenders' output has consistently followed the blueprint of the debut album and Learning to Crawl. While Chrissie and her revolving lineup have made some darn good albums after those, to my ears, she has not tried to reinvent herself from an artistic standpoint.

    Finally, on the pop/country side, Mary Chapin Carpenter now has a 15 year career that is following the above examples - build the perfect model (Shooting Straight in the Dark, or some will argue Come on Come on) and rework it. Although I am still a big fan, her conservatism and self-awareness have become increasingly frustrating to me (her last album has reached the stage of unlistenable).

    Again, I am a big fan of all of the above, so I am not intending to slag their work....
     
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