Should I add a subwoofer?

See what I just posted above. Any ideas?

 

Why not try the line level outputs from your amp. It's actually is a better way to do it anyway.

jeff

 

I own an REL T2; assuming you're using the 8 ohm taps for your B&W PM1s, the REL would hook up to your Primaluna like this:



If you're sure of the correct hook-up, then the manual is pretty good about describing how to set the crossover and subwoofer volume (what they call hi/low level)...

 

Unless you have monoliths with at least two woofers == ALWAYS!

 

Did you buy a sub off Craigslist? The image you posted above is the correct way. Double-check your connections. Make sure the REL is powered on (blue light on my T2).

 

Something else to consider. For a while I used one of these inline so that my monitors weren't fed low bass that they couldn't reproduce anyway. This way the amp had to do less work. I have an active sub. I have since pulled it out, as I bought new speakers that extend lower. You can get these custom made, picking the crossover frequency and slope. It does the job - would get rid of your 'farty' bass for sure. You just put it between the preamp and the amp for your monitors (line level signal).

I should probably add that if you have a modern amp with "bass management" features you don't need this. But I have a 60 year old tube amp and a preamp with none of that stuff.

Oh, another thought (I think it's mentioned upthread). Some subwoofers actually allow you to split the signal and send a high pass filtered version back to your amp/monitors. Mine has that option. But it rubbed me the wrong way - I didn't want that kind of digital processing going on in the signal - especially since it's an unknown entity, and makes for a much longer signal path with potential issues with phase. I can't say for sure it degraded the signal. But I just couldn't do it!

 

No , a sub will not get rid of farty bass, in fact it's quite likely it will add to the problem. I've owned many subs and can say there only a bandaid solution for speakers with limited bass .

 

Hop over to Audio Karma and use the search-Google Search function for distributed bass. Lots of threads and experience there.

 

Yeah, I have it setup correctly and blue light is on, but I'm getting nothing. My only guess is that it's the cable.

Guy I bought it from swears the sub works, but he had it hooked up to another cable. I looked online and the only cable I found for it costs twice what I paid for the amp! Hopefully there are other options.

 

Brian,
Campbell is correct in how to hook up the REL sub to your integrated amplifier......the problem is that's not going to solve your bass problem with the main speakers. The REL neutrik hookup cable is to be used in a speaker system where you want to send a FULL range signal to your loudspeakers. That way, you're not affecting the tonal balance and the frequencies sent to your main speakers. That is how RELs circuitry is able to blend in so well with speaker systems in a music based setup. Based on your original issue, it sounds like you're trying to relieve your mains from the lowest bass so you don't get the farty distortion due to them being smaller. In order to do this with your amplifier, you cannot use the RELs neutrik hookup cable since you won't be crossing over your speakers. What type of subwoofer did/are you buying? In order for you to send the lower frequencies to your subwoofer and filter them out so they don't strain your main speakers, you have to have a subwoofer with an internal crossover that allows you to send the signal through the sub first, then on to your mains. I don't know about every sub in REL's lineup, but I do know that some/most of them do not have this capability.....Campbell mentioned the T series and those DO NOT have this capability, you have to hook it up as he stated in his above post. I'd have to look at the back of all their subs to see which one do or do not. IF none of the RELs have this capability, you may have to look a different line (I would go with Velodyne subs if I had my choice behind the RELs). Anyway, the RELs are to me the highest quality most musical subwoofers....BUT if you want to set your system up so that your mains handle the higher frequencies and the lowest bass is sent to the sub, then they may not work for you. Does this make sense?

-Buck

 

Makes total sense. At this point, I really just want to hear what things sound like setting it up the way REL suggests. PrimaLuna got back to me and said that doing a crossover is a "terrible" idea and is likely to result in worse sounding bass.

Whether it is or not, at this point I just want to see if the REL T1 sub I bought works at all. I've wired everything correctly, but I'm getting nothing from the sub. Hoping it is just a faulty cable. What happened to the good 'ole days when stuff just worked?!?

 

I hear ya. The REL should work just fine hooking it up that way although it does get a little complicated with the black wire when it comes to the type of amplifier you're hooking it to (it has to do with whether or not the amplifier you're hooking it up to is a balanced design, but would assume Prima Luna would have mentioned it if you talked to them on the phone). Maybe a silly question, but remember the RELs do have 2 volumes....one for the LFE input and one for the high level.....are you using the volume labeled high/low level? Is you're power light on? I also would check whether or not the Prima Luna is a balanced design. If so, then this gets complicated. I read through a huge thread one time where Charlie Hansen (the owner of Ayre Acoustics) was trying to help one of his customers who had a REL sub and an Ayre amplifier.....turns out REL manuals were printed incorrectly when dealing with balanced amplifier designs. It was pretty interesting, but anyway that was about a year ago so who knows if they've been fixed by now. Check the power light and the volume and your connections and get back to us.

 

Double check that the Speakon connector is completely engaged. They can be a little tricky to get inserted at first, with the whole insert, turn and lock approach.

Also the REL has 2 volume controls, 1 for the speaker level input and 1 for the line level input.

 

I can hear the Speakon connector lock, so it seems to be in there correctly.

I've played with turning all of the various volume controls up and down. Still nothing.

 

You are getting power on the thing, right?

 

Mmm, have you tried the line level out of the PrimaLuna to the line level in on the REL ? Also, what is the REL's crossover frequency control set to ?

 

Yeah, just tried that a few minutes ago. Nothing. Starting to think this guy sold me a sub that doesn't work. The thing looks brand new and he says it was working in his system 2 days ago.

My local shop sells REL, so I'm going to take it up there and see what they say.

 

I hope it was cheap. On the up side, plate amps are easy to get, and would take 15 minutes to replace in your sub.

jeff

 

Yeah. Just nothing out of the sub. It's so rare that a sub this new would malfunction that I just took the guy's word that it worked once I saw it power on.

 

Would a properly functioning plate amp start to warm up a little after being powered on for awhile? If so, this one is ice cold and perhaps that's the issue. What do they run generally speaking? Where would I buy this?

 

Yes it should get warm after a while. Check out http://www.parts-express.com/ for a possible replacement.

jeff

 

Do you or a friend have a home theater receiver that you could test the LFE input? That would tell you whether or not its the amplifier. It's possible it could be the cable but in my experience cable issue like this are few and far between. I would try the LFE input from a receiver/preamp processor before I did anything else.

 

Took it to my local dealer who also happens to sell REL. They plugged it up and it just doesn't work. The thing looks brand new, but I guess I shoulda done more to verify that it worked. Luckily the guy who sold it to me is going to give me a refund, so all I lost was about 6 hours outta my life.

The dealer didn't think the T1 (or any of the T models) would give me any kind of noticeable improvement. My room's not that big though, maybe 12' x 15' or so. Seems like I'd want something on the smaller side.

On the plus side, all of my acoustical panels arrived from GIK today, so once I've got them installed I might find that the bass is mostly fine.

 

That makes no sense. A REL subwoofer will slam you in the chest -- and with the right recordings and at the right sub settings it will be sound accurate. Note: You can make it slam your chest and it'll sound like mud if you simply crank it without trying to finely adjust. The T2 would be great for your room size. But the T1 should sound great too. Either way to say, "no noticeable improvement," is just wrong.

 

I went to listen to some RELs just a few days ago and found a big problem. I heard the R528 which is close to the top of the range and also the new S5 which is about to be released. If you use the loudspeaker outputs of your conventional 2-channel amp, and connect them to the high level inputs of the sub, the volume of your sub and the volume of your main speakers move up and down in tandem when you adjust the volume control on the amp. That's as you'd expect. However, you would also want to be able to adjust the balance between the two so you can have as much or as little bass as you want. The REL does allow you to adjust the volume of the sub downwards but there's very little scope fore turning it up, and I found this was a big problem at low listening levels - the sub was emitting very little sound even with the gain turned up to max. Unfortunately this was a dealbreaker for me.

From what I understand this wouldn't be a problem if you were driving the low-level inputs with an A/V amp because you'd be able to control the volume of the sub from the amp. But not many two-channel stereo people will have this option.