Should I add a subwoofer?

The SubDude II just arrived. I threw it under the sub and... damn... I could tell a huge difference in the first 10 seconds of some Zappa I had just listened to. Much tighter bass. Sounds great.

 

Listen to the MUSIC (midrange) not the bass frequencies.

 

Yep. Will do.

 

Awesome!

It truly was a lifesaver for me where my neighbors were concerned. Glad it worked out for you in giving you better sound.

 

Same experience I had.

Welcome to the 'low end' club!

 

Lowered the XO. What I noticed is that it cleared up the soundstage a bit. Seems like the mid and highs got more distinct. I did lose a little weight/thickness to the music, but the tradeoff on the 3 albums I've played since the change seems worth it. Was that similar to what you experienced?

 

I think the weight/thickness you're referring to is the overlapping frequencies in the approximately 55Hz to 30Hz range. You'll lose some thump because it's really not supposed to be there. I notice that on good recordings the kick drum has some snap to it -- instead of sounding kind of muffled. Bass notes sound like human fingers moving on roundwound strings instead of sounding like bass foot pedals on church organ.

I hate to say it Brian, but you're growing up lad -- you're not a little slamming bass boy anymore. You'll have to leave the thundering bass that rumbles your room behind you and accept the high quality components in your system and let them perform to their peak capabilities. Just kidding, you can still crank your sub once in while, but it sounds like you've evolved.

Adjust the midrange not the "subwoofer." Make the music sound great, don't focus on the sub frequencies, focus on all frequencies. I listened to my gear a little while ago and it sounded great...I don't think I'll touch a thing for a while (hopefully for a long while!) How many clicks (if your REL has "clicks") up from lowest are your XO and volume?

 

Ha. I'm hesitant to move the thing while it's sounding this good, but will check at the end of the night's listening session. I can tell you that the the XO is less than the 9 o'clock position (just a smidge). The volume is only on a few clicks from the bottom. It's really low. I just want to fill out the bottom end, not shake walls.

 

Below 9 o'clock...that sounds right. I wouldn't be surprised if you could lower the XO one click and raise the volume one click. When it hits you'll notice it - not because it's slamming but because your cartridge, TT, tube amp and speakers will sound great! Let your gear shine!

 

Now immediately after posting that, I hopped up and started fidgeting with it. Turns out the rolloff was set right at 41Hz and the volume was a smidge under the 7 o'clock position (5 clicks from the minimum).

I lowered the rolloff to around 32Hz, but it sounded like crap. Now I can't seem to get it quite back where it was. Sigh. I knew I should've left well enough alone (at least for the night).

 

One thing I'm wondering... the sub sounded fantastic all day. But the sun is starting to set as we speak and it seems like the bass is getting boomier. Can temperature have that much effect on the sub's sound?

 

Do your dials "click." I count the clicks and write them down. Then you can always go back. You can also mark off the sub's corners on the floor with masking tape so you can move it around and always get it right back.

 

I don't know the science behind it but I have noticed the system can sound different at day, night, humid...and if you've been listening a long time. It's good to take a break and listen again with fresh ears. It alway sounds very good when you have a friend over and you both have had a couple of drinks!

 

Yeah, I kinda counted the clicks.

I just pulled the sub out and set it at 32Hz and turned the volume up a few clicks. Actually sounds really nice right now, so we shall see if it stays well-behaved or not.

 

So it sounds like you're saying the volume dial is turned farther away from starting position than the XO dial? That's how my REL is set. Your main speakers go lower than mine and I think your REL is larger...by setting XO lower you're not producing overlapping (haze) frequencies.

 

Could it be ear/listening fatigue? Especially if the XO was a bit high.

 

yes

 

Might be listening fatigue. Sounds great this morning.

 

So in theory, where do I want the subwoofer to stop relative to the main speakers? Mine are 'rated' to 32Hz. (Devore Fidelity The Nines for anyone who wants to look).

In theory does one want SOME overlap with the main speakers?

 

Unless your speakers have a significant drop-off above 32Hz, I don't know if a subwoofer is going to do that much for you. Below 32Hz, you're going to feel it more than hear it.

 

My system often sounds better or worse depending on time of day. If you listened on a weekday when there wasn't much strain on the power grid, then it will sound better than the early evening when everyone gets home and turns on all their appliances and lights. It makes a case for a power regenerator -- not a conditioner, but one that actually recreates the AC line frequency and holds it stable and clean. They start at about $3k IIRC...

So yesterday morning I was listening to my system, and there was just some slight muddiness in the soundstage, and lack of stability -- like the image moves a little as the notes change. I've been bugged by this for a long time, and I know it's a room/acoustics issue because my listening room is...suboptimal...but I can't really put up a bunch of room treatments as it's our family room. But then I remembered something from this thread, so I dragged this rack we have for holding blankets and put it in front of the glass french doors that I have long suspected were the main problem...I played the same cut again and it was like I had just upgraded my system. Amazing improvement in clarity and 3D soundstage. Everything tightened up, and the bass sounded tighter and more musical. I'm really glad I discovered this!

 

Well Yeah!

 

I just added a subwoofer to my system, a used Paradigm PDR-10. Right now I'm running it with a pair of Paradigm Titans. Love it -- does a great job of adding a solid lower bass presence to everything. I'm getting a second one (same model), and planning to run the two of them with my Paradigm Studio 20s.

The only downside is that right now, I don't want to listen to anything that doesn't have a substantial lower end. Steely Dan's Gaucho SACD and Donald Fagen's Morph the Cat DVD-A keep popping into my disc tray.

If you've got main speakers with limited lower-end capabilities, and an upgrade to larger full-range speakers isn't going to happen any time soon, a sub can make a big difference.

 

Of all the gear I've ever had, my sub, a Sunfire SDS -8, has been the hardest to place, set up and listen to with any confidence. Every source behaves different. One gets it wrong and the next sounds great. I can never tell when it is positioned and set correctly. It can be frustrating. Thing is, it's a nice sub too. Where to crossover, where to place, how loud? I can't figure it out.
This thread is bookmarked for my studies.
Thanks...
Ron

 

They say that humans can hear from 20Hz to 20KHz, and some people can hear as low as 12Hz. Humans can feel sound from 4Hz to 16Hz.

32Hz x .7 = 22.4Hz.

22.4Hz could be a starting point for your crossover adjustments. They says it's better to have the crossover lower and the volume higher. Overlapping frequencies hinders clarity of sound.