Should I get off the SACD wagon?

what is meant by 'basic SACD bass managment'?

 

1. No timing adjustments to compensate for the distance the listener is from each speaker.

2. No bass management at all in stereo mode.

 

Make sure that if you buy one of the cheaper models available these days that it has bass management. My first SACD purchase was a DVD/SACD combo without bass management. Let me tell you...you won't like the sound at all. I took it back and got a different unit and it made a world of difference!

Hope this helps some folks get the right equipment the first time....

 

Garry: If you only have a stereo system you don't need bass management to play stereo SACD tracks. If you have a stereo pair of speakers combined with a sub just let the current crossover do its thing. It is the person with a 5.1 system that needs a decoder that provides bass management to manage 5.1 and stereo if the sub and front speakers don't share a common external crossover setup. Since it is typical to use the receiver to use the sub for dedicated effects in 5.1 this is no longer a typical setup. Thus full bass management is desirable. Sony and Philips will have a line of SACD units out very soon with timing and full bass management.

 

All the DVD-A and SACD players I've seen have analog (6-channel and 2 channel) and digital (optical or coax) output. AFAIK few if any players offer real bass management of the *analog* signal. And currently, the only way to hear actual SACD or DVD-A tracks, except for one or two high-priced and configutarion-specific excetions, is via their analog outputs (i.e., the player converts the
signal from digital to analog internally, then passes it on to the
receiver or preamp for 'passthrough'. Since bass management is generally done in the digital domain in a HT receiver, working on a digital signal, there is no bass managment done to the SACD/DVD-A signal).

You can of course get receiver-mediated bass management of the digital DTS/DD5.1 or digital PCM signal if you use the digital out of your DVD-A player.

This frustrating state of affairs is already in the process of changing, and I expect the soon either 1) most DVD-A and SACD players will do bass management of the hi-rez signal prior to output or 2) receivers/preamp sections will be able to do bass management to the analog signal. Sherwood has a receiver that does the latter, but it
does so by reconverting the signal back to digital, doing bass mgmt, then converting back to analog.

 

I'm currently using a Yamaha HT receiver in 2-ch analog mode (i.e. analog output from the CD player to analog 2-ch CD input of the receiver), with sub connected to the receiver via the sub out jack. Since in this mode I am still allowed to make subwoofer level adjustmnent (but cannot make adjustments to rear or center channels that are also connected, but not in use) I assume some sort of bass managment is taking place. Am I wrong?

 

It depends on how you have it set up. Most Yamaha HT receivers have a great main/sub selection called "both". You can use your main speakers full range and set the x-over on the sub to work well with this. Using this setting also distributes the other channels to the mains/sub to handle info below the preset 90HZ Yammy roll-off (sadly, 90hz seems too high, they should have incorporated viarable x-over settings, etc/shame). In 2 channel analog playback ("no effects"/bypassing digital circuits, except x-over which is digital) be aware that if you have your main speakers set to "large" and bass output set to sub, then your sub will not output in this mode (only DPL, DD, etc.). If you have the mains set to "small" then your sub will work in this mode. Also, use the "tone defeat" button to take the EQ (bass/treble) out of the signal chain. Which model do you have?

Todd

 

Hey, I just saw an article in the UK's What HiFi magazine, with a review of a new Pioneer "universal" player - I think it must be the first of its kind, or close to it. It's 900 UK Pounds, and plays DVD-V, DVD-A and SACD.

Anyone come across this one yet?

 

All current Sony SACD and SACD/DVD players have basic bass management, even my $200.00 500V. Next model lines from Sony and Philips will sport more advanced bass menagement and some models will sport time alignment adjustments as well. Don't know what DVD-A venders have in mind for their next lineup.

 

take a good listen on my sacd player on my system and you will hear a big improvement. I dont know why most of the people on this post dont hear the much better sound that sacd offers. sacd does blow away cd big time. there is no looking back.most people have to remember that analog mastertapes do degrade after a number of years.what I like about sacd is you can here the sound so well and clean its like owning the original master tapes.I wonder what steve thanks of all this?

 

Glad to hear some more positive words on SACD - I just hope that the record companies start releasing some more interesting recordings.....

 

abraxas on sacd kills both the mofi and the sony sbm remastered cd

 

i am a young guy at the age of 27.I just have very good common knowlidge to know better i guess.sacd is a large leap forward in getting the perfect sound.a good amplifier that can handle the dynamics and frequency responce of sacd will knock your socks off.I only own a sony 775! yes it is cheap,and i run it into an onkyo 575.the onkyo has a frequency response of 5 hz to 100khz!it tickles me pink to here the sound of sacd threw it. forget the technoligy behind it. it is the best sound ive ever herd.I work with some of the kc area bands and i can tell you that i here that live microphoned sound in sacd that dvd audio cant even do.I will say that vinyl and sacd are my favorites to listen to. pcm is what it is and it will never be analog in sound.the best pcm digital recordings get smashed by high end analog and dsd recordings.sence i listen to live stuff all the time in bars ect.it gives me the ear to know what audiophile means.sacd brings the pop and sparkle of the artest to you

 

most of people on this post are not audiophiles and dont know what to realy look for when it comes to the sacd improvements.I had to make improvments on my system to bring sacd to life.my old speakers that had tweeters with a 18 khz roll off made sacd sound like cd.I got speakers with tweeters that rolled of at 25 khz and also use better cone drivers made out of kevlar and it allowed sacd to bust at the seams.

 

Or perhaps people aren't that happy with the offered choices in both title and mastering....

I know myself I would take the plunge if Steve had an SACD album available, but until that day comes, I'm content with the audiophile cds that I own.

 

If other record companies put out SACD titles I wanted and if sales picked up bigtime, I would buy a player. but until then, i'm happy with CD.

 

Rodney, you need to get over your superiority complex. A much bigger issue to me right now than the sound quality, is the complete lack of titles that i care about. The statements that you are making are opinions, not facts.

 

That's a big 10-4!

So does BS&T.

 

Hi Tim,

I don't think I agree with this statement at all.

I would rather have 10 SACDs that sounded a whole lot better than that same recording in any other available audio playback format than I would 10,000 SACDs that didn't sound any better than their CD/cassette/DVD-A/LP counterparts. What would be the point of the new format otherwise (aside from making the record companies richer from the reissues they've sold me again)?

As for the arrival of more titles, take a look at this:

http://www.sony-europe.com/presscenter/PressShow.x?articleid=761

 

Hmmm, maybe this explains why I couldn't stand the sound of the SACDs that I purchased (against CDs or vinyl). Yeah Gary, you and I both are anxiously awaiting Steve's first SACD. I'm convinced there must be some good sound hiding in SACD technology... Just waiting for an artist like Steve to do his magic!

Go Steve, Go Steve...

 

Hello all,

The fact that some companies will be de-noising some DSD product isn't surprising. I'd guess that much of these might even include some eventual releases of folks like Caruso (sp?). That certainly doesn't mean that ALL parties involved in producing DSD releases will do so.

Take, for example, the absolutely superb analogue to DSD transfers from Opus 3. I'm not certain whether or not this great company is still producing vinyl, but I would be surprised if the tape source committed to vinyl would sound much different (read that *better*) than the things they've released in SACD so far. It remains to be seen whether PURE DSD recordings would require much alteration to reach satisfactory performance in the consumer's eye.

As for analogue to DSD transfers made by the likes of Mr. Hoffman, these already exist, thanks to the Fantasy Jazz recordings licensed to Analog Productions. Doug Sax did these, and I think he's slated to do the ones which are to follow in a month or so. I have three of the first four to be published, and do not share as much enthusiasm for their sound as many other SACD proponents have expressed in other forums. They are, arguably, closer to the sound of the original master tapes, but they tend towards a harshness (in a few instances) that has, obviously, been engineered out of the original vinyl releases. Whether it be from age/deterioration factors, or poor judgement when these recordings were made originally doesn't matter, but it does point to the need for judicious execution on the part of the re-issue engineer. After hearing a friend's vintage vinyl copy of Waltz For Debby, I can't help but concede that although the SACD is clearer and more dynamic, it's certainly not more musically satisfying. I would have rather had Mr. Sax EQ a little of that harshness out of the top end on this one. Even then it would display more of the ambiance in the recording than any version of the CD has been able to do. While these three probably do represent the most accurate conversion of the original tapes to date, they are also indicative of the need for audiophiles to accept that the absolute sound can never be attained. I am happy to have these releases and anxiously await others from APO.

As for the Patricia Barber SACDs on the new Mobile Fidelity, I have no plans for buying these as I have no interest in the artist. I've read here and elsewhere that they are superior to anything that's come before.