Shure M97xE Blind Alignment Listening Test

"M" has a visceral feel, nice upper bass/ midrange bloom. I hear more distortion as well, maybe sourced from the recording, record wear, or stylus pinch effect, or other cause. Despite the increase of "buzz" in the zep clip, or IGD in the Planets clip, the "M" clips are more pleasurable to listen to, and more dynamic in terms of punchiness in the percussion, a very noticeable difference.

My listening setup is just my cheap hp laptop without a special sound card (I miss my old tower with a creative sound card) and vintage Sennheiser HD-420 SL Headphones

BTW my M97-XE does not produce IGD. My table for test playing LPs for sale is a modest Technics direct drive SL-D205 (same as an SL-D202) The cartridge is aligned to my own template which nulls at 5 mm from the lead out groove. The cart body is in line with the headshell. (I think 22 degrees) The cantilever appears to be 12 o clock, static, and when playing a record.

 

Makes sense for you to align as you do then I suppose.

But I would have questions about the overall performance of the cartridge (as I stated earlier) particularly when other owners report having straight cantilevers with that specific model.

 

Ok, well that's literally from the horses mouth, so...

 

Do you mean that that looking straight on the whole thing is tilted a little? Mine is like that, but it's pointed away from the spindle, right? I had actually thought about putting a spacer in on one of the set screws to get it completely straight....but, it's really not far off, so I didn't think it was a big deal.

BTW--I downloaded a needledrop of the Eagles (Long Road) I've been using to see if I can rid it of the distortions....his $5k turntable set up has it WORSE!! So, there you go....that one's in the pressing--not even my copy.

Very curious to see what M was so I can align here with it and see if I hear any diff....

 

I'm saying the horse is full of it.

 

Hmm. Why would he lie?

 

So, mine is cocked....Justin's is cocked....Shure says that's either by design or within tolerance, which I'd still like to know--because if it's within tolerance, there's probably an advantage to putting a little spacer on one side to get it and perpendicular as possible.

I picked up a copy of Belinda Carlisle's first record today.....looked like not one had ever played it. It's thin....a little warped....but, the surface was immaculate--and it goes right to the label. I mean there's like less than 1/2" of runout---and the last song on side B there's a little distortion on her "sss's"--but, but even her midrange heavy gritty voice didn't trigger any kind of IGD.

 

Because they're tired of replacing them under warranty

The quality control issues with SHURE and most especially, the M97xE are well documented and not just noise (cock eyed styli and ill set diamonds)

As for:
"* Yes, the typical tolerance is + / - five degrees. The rubber bushing the supports the stylus cannot be manufactured with a tighter tolerance than this. The groove of the record will bring the stylus to the center."

(How can it be "-"? A properly installed and assembled cantilever assembly "0"? )

That statement may very well be the truth as for the who and what SHURE has going for them nowadays, but it is not an acceptable margin of error and IS actually BS (that it cannot be done; it is done every day)

SHURE seldom had this problem on so large a scale, ever, before they moved their operations outside of the United States

It's a quality of the setter/assembly person "problem"

Not bashing, I own 3; ONE from this batch was "right" out of the gate

I've bought and sold (on tables), 5

Only TWO out of FIVE were properly assembled

5% MIGHT be "OK" on the old flip-o-matic 78 on one side, 331/3-45 on the other, but not a serious cartridge

Sometimes they will settle in though after a few hours; if not send them back

 

For anyone interested, here are some snaps I just took. I wasn't exactly dead on straight, but you can definitely see the cantilever shifts offset.







"Dynamic offset" deniers are going to tell me their stock stylus doesn't do this?

 

It's because as nice as this cartridge can sound, the assembly is very very poor (NOT all, but TOO MUCH of the time)

Especially coming from an icon like SHURE, it's not as if they are new to this

Audio-Technica doesn't turn out crap like this
(and remember, NOT bashing, I own this cartridge)

But there's no need to deny the truth

Apparently, not enough people have complained or SHURE would have addressed this issue; either that or the cartridge costs them pennies to make now that they are down in Mexico, so it's one of those costs analysis things working off volume sold, percentage returned versus cost(s) to correct the problem etc

I am sure everyone has noticed that SHURE has raised the MSRP of this cart significantly on their website

 

Your photos (nice) look crooked as compared to your green lines

Can't really see anything meaningful

As long as the diamond is close to being straight I consider it a win

Had a couple so bad it was as if they were going off on a right angle

The good ones are very good and set-up/track well; the rest are bad, just to varying degrees

 

Analogman, I'm starting to think my stylus is just defective. I was unaware of any QC issues with Shure. I've had this cart for a little under a year. It wasn't until a few months ago when I bought a vintage amp, and started playing with arc templates around the same time, that I started noticing some sound issues. It's weird, because the beginning of records still sound fine. Only the inner grooves give me trouble. I think it would be natural to assume this was an alignment issue. Sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time with all this.

 

Sounds like they're already married!

 

I think what you have done was just fine and certainly showed an honest and healthy curiosity as for various alignment schemes and theories

Nothing wrong with that and your efforts are valid if one is so inclined

I have found through trial and error that any good two point alignment will yield decent results on the first two thirds of the Lp and that inner groove issues are best addressed using a dynamic bias "adjustment"

I have found the ubiquitous "Hi-Fi News......" test record very good for this

The absolute, penultimate method for cartridge alignment would be to do so electrically, but this requires equipment I do not own and may just be over kill

Haven't had a SHURE yet that would not track anything I threw at it on a good arm

It is worth remembering that the ultimate goal is not to just set the overhang and null points but to also make certain that the cantilever is parallel with the long line in the alignment grid on your gauge
This may result in you needing to twist the cartridge body a small amount one way or the other to get it right and can be accomplished with reasonable accuracy by sight, assuming the stylus (diamond) is correctly mounted to the cantilever

With this adjustment you can compensate for reasonable (SMALL) cantilever deflections and manufacturing errors

If your azimuth looks good, in most instances you'll be "OK"

 

I suppose I should have mentioned that I was in fact using a HiFi News Test LP. Some alignments required more anti skate than others, but I always got the second to last track on side A to track without buzzing. Still get distortion on actual playing.

 

So, shoot me a PM with which protractor/method you used for M. Be curious to set mine up that way....see if I notice any difference here.

 

Just thought of something, the dynamic stabilizer down requires an extra 0.5 grams of tracking force. For example, I have mine at 1.25 grams with the stabilizer up. For an actual tracking force of 1.25 grams with the stabilizer down, you must set the counterweight to 1.75 grams (or measured 1.75 grams by a tracking force gauge)

I prefer not to use the dynamic stabilizer except when playing a warped record.

 

It's actually +0.5 grams with the brush down. Or am I screwing that up too?

That would be cheating

 

Yes. it is 0.5 grams, just edited and corrected

 

Then it would seem (I would have to guess) that you've got something else going on then
Is the test tone still "clean" and "round" sounding on that track?

 

Get a good magnifying glass and examine the azimuth. I find this is very critical.

 

You might look at the harmonic distortion thread I posted recently and go through that procedure and see how much distortion you have between a 1K test tone and second harmonic. Although a relative measurement, it can tell you how close you are. All three of these samples sound a little raw to me.

 

Agree 100%. The days of Shure really giving a rat's **** about cartridges is, unfortunately, long behind us. It used to be a large part of their business, and as such, they protected it carefully. I don't think they really are serious players in the cartridge field anymore, and the chat transcript that was posted in this thread certainly seems to confirm that. "Oh the record groove will just pull that into alignment". Shurrrrrrrre.

 

That's a bit harsh
Those guys are paid to answer the phones and listen to people bitch, they've got to have something to come back with
They're not the same jokers who build the carts with the crooked nails
I agree, they have gotten sloppy, but I'm not going to pretend to know how important the cart business still is, or isn't to them
They still sell a hell of a lot of DJ carts (and those are always straight!?)
It's amazing that SHURE has even survived the realities of the market between the 1960s to today
They have always made right by me; my only bitch is that if you don't or can't do it like you used to (right) for whatever the reasons, then you probably should just give it up

Could also be current management's attitude towards that class of transducers

Maybe with the renewed interest in vinyl and subsequent increase in cartridge sales things will improve, but I don't know

The M97xE has been around for more than a decade now and I am sure they've sold a boatload of them........enough so that the copyright date on the boxes has changed

I haven't been able to determine if the most recent batches have improved or not; I have one that SHURE sent me back in June that I have yet to open (with a 2011 date on the box)
The complaints seem to have diminished a bit

 

It may seem harsh, but this isn't the first time that I've read something like this, either. DJ cartridges are likely to be straight, as they pretty much use a 2x4 for a cantilever. Has to be stiff to handle the pressures of backcueing and scratching. Maybe it's not the official stance, but the person doing the chat was certainly in the wrong with the assessment that having that much play or being offset that much was ok.