Simple tweaks to optimize Klipsch Heresys

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by action pact, May 1, 2010.

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  1. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    Klipsch Heresy speakers are one of the most contentious speakers in the hifi world. Some folks love them for their punchy efficiency and revealing clarity, while others dismiss them as "bass-shy," "too bright," and "shouting."

    I happen to really like my Heresy II's with my 20wpc vintage VM Model 1448 tube amp. As many have observed, these speakers are especially well mated to gooey old tube amps.

    Following are some simple tweaks I've done to get great sound from my Heresys:

    1.) RECAP THE CROSSOVERS. My speakers were made in 1986, and when I acquired them 2 years ago they were painfully shrill to listen to. They sounded terrible. After 20+ years the original caps had drifted from spec. I sent the terminal cups to Bob Crites and he recapped them for me for a modest charge - or you can order the parts from Bob and do it yourself. When I got them back (within one week!) and put it back together, the improvement was shocking. Making sure the caps are at 100% is an essential step towards making these speakers perform at their best.

    2.) CORRECT LOADING. My VM amp has speaker taps for 4, 8, and 16 ohms. The label on my Heresys state that the nominal impedance is 4 ohms, and that's how I had the VM set up for a long time. The Heresys were indeed bass-shy and somewhat shrill. I decided one night to change the setting to 8 ohms and was blown away by the improvement! Full, deep, round bass now was pumping out (no one would say they are "bass-shy" now), they were louder, and there was a substantial improvement in the soundstage and imaging. The Heresys really woke up. (Incidentally, I later heard that a run of Heresy II's went out with the 4-ohm label in the mid '80s, but they are actually rated for 8-ohms.)

    3.) PROPER POSITIONING. I have found that Heresys are very sensitive to placement. Put them too close to the wall and they sound boomy and flabby. Put them too far into the room and/or raise them too high off the floor and they sound thin and piercing. Paul Klipsch's recommendation of placing them in corners didn't produce good results for me at all. I prefer to place them on the floor (on a rug) using the tilt-back risers they came with, and very slightly towed in. Using the speaker placement calculator on this site: http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring was an enormous help. Just a few inches to the left or right of the position recommended by the calculator negatively affected the soundstage; it was as if the sound went out of focus. Precisely following the calculator's guidance produced wonderfully 3-dimensional sound, with nicely balanced tonality.

    4.) HORN DAMPING. [This is the latest tweak I've done, and haven't yet had time to fully evaluate it.] Commonly used materials to do this are oil-based modeling clay or Moretite rope caulk, which has a clay-like consistency. Yesterday I bought a box of Moretite at Home Depot for about $5, and it only took a short while to apply a layer to the outside of the treble and midrange horns. Before putting the caulk on the horns, I tapped the inside of the horns with a screwdriver and they had a hollow ring vs. after the Moretite was applied, so the stuff definitely dampens them. After doing one speaker, I decided to do a test. I put on a mono recording, and turned the balance knob to one side and then the other. The change was subtle but noticeable. The speaker with the Moretite seemed smoother and fuller. After finishing the second speaker, I sat down for a listening session. I put on a jazz record to see how blaring trumpets now sounded on the Heresys, and am happy to report that they were not the least bit fatiguing. Everything else I listened to also sounded fantastic. I couldn't help noticing how 3D the soundstage sounded, and can only assume that the damping had a positive effect on that as well.

    I hope you find these observations useful! Please feel free to share your own tricks for getting the best sound out of your Heresys.
     
  2. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Mmmm, I swear there was a fellow asking how to improve his Heresies, but can't find. Maybe it was a different forum? Great info, I'll keep digging to find the guy.

    Just do watch out that even Moretite eventually will harden and fall off. I wonder if sheets of Dynamat or something might be better, zip-tied so even if the glue gives out it can't fall off.
     
    ncblue likes this.
  3. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    Im not sure what I think of them. I knew someone that owned them and listened to them very extensively many times. I kidna thought for the most part, they werent really detailed so much but just forward sounding, kinda a Cerwin vega sound, but without the really loud deep bass 60-80 hz bump thing. To me they seemed to be basically okay sounding but I could never own them. It reminded me of a good P.A. speaker but optimized for in home use. They sounded great on some stuff, but classical was just too much lack of smoothness in the highs and mids. It wasnt bad per se, but just seemed to be lacking a good bit in smoothness and clarity to me.

    A great speaker in some ways, but just not in the ways I like.
     
  4. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    It's been a long time since I've been inside a pair of Heresys, so I forget... are the boxes stuffed? If not, try lining the cabinet walls with fiberglass. Or stuff them with fiberfill, big bags of the stuff at Wal Mart for cheap. You can also apply the mortite to the woofer baskets.
     
  5. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I've taken a look at the Heresys online but I'm very ignorant and inexperienced when it comes to speaker "insides." Any chance you have a picture of the above?
     
  6. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    My Heresys came with some sort of foam inside.

    I found this one online, courtesy of Bob Crites. As you can see, it's a rather tight fit on the Heresy II, which is why I paid a bit extra to have Bob do the operation.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Thank you for the reply!:wave:
     
  8. Ctiger2

    Ctiger2 Senior Member

    Location:
    US
  9. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    Thank you for your productive contribution to this thread.
     
    Jam757 and M.R.Collins like this.
  10. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    They must be fairly recent Heresys, the ones I worked on years ago had breadboard crossovers. Easier to work on than the "build it on the cup with hot melt" type crossovers.

    Hey, I KNOW that ear!
     
  11. StephenGR12

    StephenGR12 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    ActionPact, nice post but there's been plenty of these threads before, to which Ctiger2 has contributed actual words.

    So, CT2, that's $20 a post for my defense attorney services.
     
  12. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

  13. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I like my Heresys. I need to get my caps done probably. These speakers sound great playing vinyl. Badly mastered c.d.s sound REALLY bad through these speakers.
     
  14. Ctiger2

    Ctiger2 Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Hahaha! Thx

    The OP is right though Heresy's are very fwd sounding and will do best with darker sounding tube gear and analog sources. That horn coupled with no bass is just a recipe for a headache. I've found them to be tolerable at low volumes. If you want to crank them though, watch out. I like to listen to music rather loud so I've found Klipsch in general isn't my cup of tea. You can tweak to your desire with the Klipsch's though and some like that.
     
  15. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    Lack of bass has not been a problem once I got the Heresys matched with the amp and positioned properly. My rig can really pump. But I agree that they sound very hard when everything isn't lined up right.
     
    utahusker likes this.
  16. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    I dont think its lack of bass but lack of any deep bass. They are very limited deep bass wise, because of the size and so on. I agree they can pump and play loud, but simple physics with a woofer that big in a relatively small cabinet, means the tuning is gonna end up relatively high.
     
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    You probably won't find much difference as, judging from the crossovers, yours are Heresy IIs, so will have the plastic mid horn. The ringing issue is to do with the MkIs which had a metal horn.

    The crossover recap is a big gain IMO, I did my very late MkIs with parts from Bob Crites and got a big upgrade in clarity and smoothness. Mine are the weird mid-point between MkIs and MkIIs with the old cabs, tweeter and bass unit, but plastic mid and E2 crossover (on a board, not a round cap).

    I was surprised yours were marked as 4 Ohm nominal, I always thought the Heresy was 8-16 Ohm, though mine don't say anything about impedance on the rear label. They certainly sound best on the 8 Ohm tap when using a tube amp. I like mine a lot, though I'd love to try La Scalas one day.

    Tony.
     
  18. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Never liked Heresys, not even with tube amps. I cant get over that "Megaphone" sound they have. With certain records, they sound ok, but with other records and Cds to me, they were unlistenable. Who wants a speaker that only sounds good with "certain" recordings? Not for me, but to each his own.
     
  19. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    I do not hear the so-called megaphone sound.
     
  20. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    Have you listened to other speakers in recent years?

    The Heresy while good in some ways, is a very forward. Efficiency at the cost of smoothness type speaker. Not horrible mind you, but just very pronounced in its particular sound and coloration. Similar to many of the cerwin vega type big speakers. Very efficient and almost a sound similar to a big P.A. type or musical instrument speaker. Loud, very loud, and able to blast, but not the last word in smoothness or detail or listenability.

    Its great on stuff that isnt top notch sounding recording and rock music played loudly, but on anything requiring detail, or intricate sounds etc...they kinda mildly steamroller the smallest of details and sounds.
     
  21. Tony L

    Tony L Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I only hear it if I play them far louder than I'd ever want to. At the moderate levels I listen and in a smallish UK living room I find them nicely balanced, clean and articulate. Mine just sit flat on the floor with no risers.

    My Heresys are in my TV room, my main system speakers are 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, and before them Harbeth Compact 7s, so I have! Good ones too!

    Tony.
     
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  22. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    If you play a record that has the mids "pushed" in the mix on the Heresys, you will be running for cover very quickly. In a nutshell, thats what I dont like about them.
     
  23. Tony L

    Tony L Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I do understand what you are saying as I have heard them sound horrible in the past, though I've feel that if they are used exactly as originally designed, i.e. with a tube amp, sitting flat on the floor, and close to a rear wall they are rather well balanced. It is really important to understand that they are deliberately voiced for this location, i.e. the tweeter is louder than the mid, which in turn is louder than the bass. For other locations one needs to go prodding around in the crossover and rebalance them a little (there are apparently alternate taps on the autoformers that can drop back the top and mid level if desired). FWIW I find them just a little too 'hot' on the tilt-back risers and prefer mine sitting flat on the carpet.

    Tony.
     
  24. Russ

    Russ Outlaw

    Location:
    Anglesea, NJ
    That's not exactly correct. "They" were never designed for that configuration. "It" was designed for a specific use, configuration and/or placement.

    When "It" became "Them" the orginal configuration became obsolete.

    Location and placement is crucial to the Heresy performance in stereo.
     
  25. Tony L

    Tony L Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    IiRC the Heresy was introduced in about 1957 and designed to act as a centre / dialogue channel in a cinema system between two KHorns. It is called the Heresy as it was the first Klipsch that was not a corner horn, an act of heresy to PWK. People started buying them in pairs to use in smaller stereo systems. None of this effects the way they were voiced, i.e. to sit on the floor and against a back wall (i.e. quarter-space). The design has changed subtly a few times over the decades, but I don't think the voicing is fundamentally altered (though I understand MkIIIs have more bass extension).

    Tony.
     
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