Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality: A Jolly Christmas (1957)

My wife loves this album. I want to find the best sounding version of it, but Frankie's stuff is pretty confusing. I bought a sealed mofi vinyl pressing that I can remaster to cd-r. But there is the original 1987 CD issue, the 24 bit remastered 1998 issue, etc. What about the 2000 concepts set that contains this CD? Should I seek any of these out? Can anyone help me find the best sounding version?

 

Going by memory here, I think the MFSL vinyl box used bad mono masters but the correct stereo masters. Is the Christmas album in stereo? If it is, you're probably better off sticking with it.

Otherwise, track down an early pressing of the album. The first pressings of many of his Capitol albums were VERY popular, so a clean copy shouldn't be hard to find for $15 or so.

If in the end you want it on CD, I wouldn't waste my money on buying the new Concepts box just for that disc. You're best bet may be purchasing the older Capitol CD (Larry Walsh was probably the mastering engineer). Those are usually easy to find for cheap at used CD stores, half.com, ebay, etc.

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Camarillo ]

 

The Concepts box set contains the same mastering as the 24 bit mastering from 1999 (I did a track by track comparison). This is a very well-done mastering job. If you have LP playback capabilities, you may want to search out the MSFL LP mastering of this (available separately from the box set) since it has superior sound.

 

"A Jolly Christmas" was a mono recording (from 1956). However, I have never heard this "bad mono master" theory about the MSFL pressing. What is your source on this theory?

I have heard some bad things in the stereo MSFL discs (e.g. "Nice 'n Easy", but the mono discs seem quite superior in sound.

I still hold very strongly by the new "Concepts" box set, which, except for "Songs For Swingin' Lovers", sounds better than almost anything I've heard.

I own many original grey label Capitols, the MSFL box, the old "Concepts" and the new "Concepts" and have listened extensively to them. Have you conducted empirical tests like I have in making your statements?

Fred

 

This isn't a first hand account. This is from an old post made by Steve, made about a year ago. I'll copy what he wrote tomorrow.

That's something that's always troubled me about the Sinatra discs. On the one hand, there's the whole issue of the incorrect masters they have that are marked "master," dubs with bad EQ and varying degrees of echo added. However, even the true "fairy dust" stereo masters for some albums don't necessarily sound so good, either, because they were poorly mixed. Remember Steve's post awhile back, the one for "Only The Lonely"? It was recorded simultaneously in mono and three-track. The mono was mixed live, while the three-track was shelved, then revisited by some later engineer who made a poor mix drenched in reverb. It's tough to compare the CD's because the early one is the stereo mix, and the 1998 remaster uses the mono mix (supposedly the wrong tape, but also badly processed judging from the distortion on some parts).

Sorry, Fred. I only have most of those CD's and a few original vinyl editions, which sound the best to me. I've listened to all the CD editions EXCEPT the Concepts box you've mentioned as your preference. I think I e-mailed you awhile back about getting a copy of "Only The Lonely," but I never got a response. (spurred on by some older posts on this forum)

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Camarillo ]

 

MoFi definitely used the wrong master for "Songs for Swingin' Lovers."

 

I recently read that Capitol had re-issued a newly remastered edition of A Jolly Christmas from Frank Sinatra with a new red version of the original cover. It lists for $18.99 but you can purchase at Walmart for $9.99. Curiosity led me to buy it because I could'nt find out anything about the mastering on any website. It turns out it is by Larry Walsh and from the original analogue tapes. I listened to this favorite Christmas album of mine, and compared it to the Bob Norberg version. The Walsh is definitely superior, and it sounds the way I think all us Sinatraphiles would like to hear the Capitol stuff remastered. I do not have the original 1987 Walsh mastered disc, but I think this is brand new and sounds fabulous. Check it ou.
I'd love to hear other opinions on this one.

 

I saw this today at Wal Mart. It had a 2005 date on it, but I didn't know what mastering it was - the Norberg, Walsh 1987, or a new one. I'd love to hear opinions on this as well.

 

I did some work with Larry in the mid-'90s, and he told me then that he'd really like to have another shot at Sinatra. Glad he got his wish; hope it sounds good.

 

Next time I'm at Walmart I'll have to pick it up.

 

I picked this up as well, and it indeed sounds great

Unlike many others here though, I like the "Concepts" box set as well, so take my opinion with that in mind.

 

You know, I had this in my hands tonight, but then I noticed the 1987 date before the 2005 date. I was afraid it might be a reissue of the 1987 Larry Walsh mastering. Does anyone know for sure this is a new remaster?

 

Is it available elsewhere than Walmart? I have no interest in shopping there but will consider upgrading if I can buy it somewhere else (and it's worth the upgrade.)

 

I'm hoping this is a new remaster, but I don't have the original 1987 cd to compare.Would Capitol have the audacity to re-issue this for the second time, using an old master, and ask $18.99? Hopefully, the answer is no. As I said, I think the sound is fabulous, and it beats the Norberg remaster by far. I generally don't have a problem with Norbergs work on the Sinatra stuff, but I have learned to appreciate the fact that he is overzealous with the NR, and that his sound is probably not that of the original masters. Like many others on this forum I would love to hear the Capitol Sinatra stuff done right, and I think this new cd is a step in the right direction.

 

I got mine at Best Buy.

 

...in addition to this, get the COLUMBIA YEARS FRANKS SINATRA Christmas CD...EXCELLENT!...a staple here on the Holidays!

 

Anyone else pick this up and can verify if the Larry Walsh mastering is new or from 1987?

 

OK...this thread made me go pull out my Sinatra Christmas CDs & here's what I found:

Capitol
"A Jolly Christmas From Frank Sinatra" (Norberg Mastered - Dated 1999 - # 21381) It has the original album artwork, I believe - black background with drawing of Frank. A clear jewelcase with "Entertainer Of The Century" in the spine. It has 14 tracks. Back before I knew any better, I gave my older "red" CD to my in-laws. (I can probably get it back wth a trade.) That was probably the 1987 CD (??) of the album when it was titled "The Sinatra Christmas Album" & it had a photo of Frank on the red booklet. Comments? Suggestions? Get back the old one? Buy the newer one??

Columbia
This really has me confused. I have a CD dated 1987 called "Christmas Dreaming". (Series Producers: James Isaac & Joe McEwen, Restoration Engineer: Frank Abbey, no mastering credit - 11 tracks - 2 versions of White Christmas - catalog # 40707)

I also have a CD dated 1994 called "Christmas Songs By Sinatra". It was mastered by Tom Ruff - catalog # 66413. It has 15 tracks, including 10 of the 11 titles on "Christmas Dreaming" (only one of the 2 versions of White Christmas). However, 5 of those 10 tracks are flagged as "previously unreleased alternate take". I can't remember if they sounded different from the ones on "Christmas Dreaming". Seems odd that they would be flagged like this for a Christmas release. Can someone shed some light on these 2 for me?

Reprise
"The Sinatra Christmas Album" - dated 1994 - catalog # 45743 - mastered by Lee Herschberg - 13 tracks. It has some of the songs that I believe originally came from a Fred Waring album ("12 Songs Of Christmas"??) that included Frank & Bing Crosby...and tracks from the "Sinatra Family Christmas" album. (It has 2 of my favorites - I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day & We Wish You The Merriest!)

It looks like the collection that came out last year, "The Frank Sinatra Christmas Collection" is a reissue of the Reprise material + 5 additional tracks. Not being a Sinatra completist, I would not think I would need this one just for those 5 tracks...unless someone convinces me otherwise...like if the sound is better than what I have.

As always, thanks for your opinions & insight!

Dexter

 

So, does anyone know if this is a different mastering of the previously released versions of this cd??

And, what is the best sounding version of this CD?

 

I would like to know as well. I already have 2 versions of this album: one dated 1987 with no mastering credit listed (I assume this is the aformentioned Larry Walsh mastering)...and another dated 1999 with mastering by Bob Norberg. I am going to listen to both tomorrow to refresh my memory on the sound, but I would like to know if the new one mentioned above is an even newer mastering & if it is better than what I have. (I did see it at Best Buy...and it does indeed have both dates on it...1987 & 2005.

Dexter

 

Does the 2005 version have the "bonus tracks" on it that the previous CD issues did? That could have something to do with the 1987 date...

 

Same exact tracks on the 1987 and the 2005 CD's.......

 

Also, I own Jolly Christmas...

Is there any reason to grab the Reprise "The Christmas Collection" CD?

What about "Christmas Dreaming"...is that one a cool one to have on CD?

 

Yes, IMO get both of those.

 

OK, so on the Reprise collection...is the sound the same on the origina 13 track CD vs last year's 18 track set? Would rather have the addtional tracks as long as they did not mess up the sound...