Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Did Sinatra ever comment about "Lean Baby?" After grousing about the gimmicky songs he was having to sing over at Columbia, surely he realized that song #1 at Capitol was a far cry from Cole Porter.
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    The song had been an instrumental hit for Billy May at Capitol:



    Considering the state of Sinatra's career, he probably couldn't turn down a chance for a hit cover. But notice the comma in the title as printed on May's 45 single above. The lyrics which Frank sang changed completely the song's original intent. "Lean" was meant to be a command, not an adjective.
     
  3. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    I wish I had this reel. Regrettably, I have none of the Capitol 4 track Sinatra reels, though I get to hear friend's copies occasionally. None of my friends have this reel either. It's early enough for me to suspect it will be one of the better options available.
     
  4. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    The Camera Frank's holding, happens to be a early Zeiss Contarex SLR. Roughly 1958-1962 era, for what it's worth.
     
  5. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I'm not sure if this would be the right thread for this, but does anyone know if the early cd release titled The Frank Sinatra Collection is worth picking up? Is it a unique mastering?

    Frank Sinatra - The Frank Sinatra Collection

    Here are the front and back covers for reference:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Evening bump.
     
  7. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    It's worth picking up. This early (1987) UK CD was actually based on a digitally-sourced "Alan Dell" LP from the previous year. Many of these tracks may have had their first compact disc release here. I'm not able to listen to my copy just now, but I believe the masterings are unique (or were reused in the 1989 UK CD, The Great Films & Shows).

    The single/film tracks on this album get generally high marks (not necessarily the best, but often second-best) in @MLutthans' comparisons; see for example "The Lady Is a Tramp" (Edit Two) at: Non-Album Tracks, 1956 .

    BTW, this disc collection is still available new for a song:
    The Frank Sinatra Collection by Frank Sinatra: Amazon.co.uk: Music
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    @PBo - Oddly, the 1987 CD and 1986 LP have some notable differences, among them:
    •One for My Baby uses the original stereo mix on the LP, but the 1987 Larry Walsh remix on the CD.
    •Nice 'n' Easy uses the original stereo mix on the LP, but a (to my knowledge) unique-to-this-release remix on the CD.
     
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  9. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Note that this CD, The Frank Sinatra Collection, was released December 7, 1987 (according to Amazon UK), while the Walsh CD remix on Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely was released in November 1987. Alan Dell must have been sharing closely with the US arm of Capitol/EMI.
     
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  10. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Cool! Thank you both for the info! I went ahead and ordered a copy. :tiphat:

     
  11. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Forum Resident

    As it has been written, so, yea, verily, it has been ordered! :winkgrin:
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    By the way, as we have seen on so many of these 1980s UK "Dell" LPs, there are common non-DMM and less-common DMM editions:
    s-l1600-207.jpg s-l1600-206DMM.jpg
    and, in this case, two covers:
    [​IMG] R-2562976-1337519131-9117.jpeg.jpg
    ....the latter including a nifty gatefold hyping the assorted releases, many of them shown in their DMM incarnations:
    R-2562976-1337519139-6912.jpeg.jpg
    The cynic in my will take another opportunity to point out the apparent non-existence of DMM editions of This is Sinatra and This is Sinatra, Volume Two, which have yet to turn up in the real world, to my knowledge. I still have no idea why that would be the case.
     
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  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Using the Power of Three (@Bob F, wvk, and myself, all pictured below in our younger days),
    Normal_group06_.jpg
    I can now confirm that the Norberg-mastered USA Can-Can CD is identical to the German CD release that wvk has.

    I'll also add that the original Capitol stereo mixes on these tracks are stinking up my whole house!
     
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  14. jtaylor

    jtaylor Forum Resident

    Location:
    RVA
    Who's who?
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Matt attached the wrong pic. I'm the one with my hands over my ears.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Bob nailed it, and I'm the one not wearing pants.
     
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Continuing with Can-Can and, specifically, "It's All Right with Me"..... I've commented before that this is one of my favorite Sinatra performances, but sound-wise, it's kind of a dog, recorded at 20th Century-Fox (not at Capitol), and likely mixed by Capitol from a 3-track tape provided by Fox, that 3-track tape itself a "submix" from the multi-track Fox source materials.

    I'm hoping maybe somebody can provide a little insight to what the straight story is, with these particulars regarding stereo versions:

    •I'm not sure, but I think we have had three distinct stereo remixes starting in 1989: 1989 Can-Can CD; 1991 Cole Porter CD; 2002 In Hollywood CD.
    •For the original Capitol stereo mix, there seem to be two source tapes floating around. The commonly-used tape has the vocal slightly right of center, but some releases have the vocal perfectly centered. I don't think these are two separate mixes, though, but rather a mildly tweaked tape dub that corrected the "problem" of having the voice slightly off center. I suppose it's possible that the "correction" may have even been made during mastering from the same off-center source tape that was previously left "as is."

    What's left of my brain tells me that the Norberg and Walsh versions are actually the same mix, but my ears tell me that they are too different sounding to be merely "differently mastered," but I say that without 100% certainty. (I'm going with "separate remixes" until something convinces me otherwise.) Along those same lines, the Walsh and In Hollywood discs are much more similar in terms of tone, but the timings are considerably different, and phase is reversed, so my brain tells me these must be full-on, separate remixes, even though, sonically, my ears could be fooled think one could be a mere remastering of the other. I think In Hollywood is the best-sounding of the bunch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  18. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Revisiting this track whose many variations are analyzed magnificently on Matt's webpage...

    I thought some might be interested in hearing the shorter (edited) 45/78 mono single version. I don't think this has ever appeared on LP or CD exactly as released on the single, but it's on a digital album (©℗ 2014 Jube Pops):

    » Amazon.com: Vintage Hollywood Classics, Vol. 14: The Great Love Stories (Recorded 1950-1957): Various artists: MP3 Downloads
    » High Society, Act I: True Love: Well did you Evah?, a song by Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, MGM Studio Orchestra, Johnny Green on Spotify

     
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  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    (Thanks to @progrockfan, @wvk3, @Bob F, for contributing clips.)

    I now have clips posted for one of my favorite Sinatra tracks, It's All Right with Me, from Can-Can.

    This was recorded at 20th Century-Fox, not at Capitol. My educated guess is that Capitol was provided a 3-track, 1/2" tape from which to create mono and stereo mixes for home listening, while Fox, having the original multi-track mag film tracks, created 6-track (70mm Todd-AO), 4-track (35mm Cinemascope-compatible), and mono (optical) mixes for film release to theatres. Sadly, even the best releases from the Capitol tapes are compromised, as is the dvd soundtrack. (I'm guessing it sounded very, very good in Todd-AO-equipped cinemas.)

    Audio clips here: Non-Album Tracks, 1959

    A few comments:
    •As far as I can tell, that original stereo LP mix is pretty bad, with hollow tone and the vocal pushed slightly off to the right.
    •The 1989 UK CD mastering took that original mix and, to its benefit, rebalanced things to move the vocal to the center. It's an improvement, to my ears, but it's still not very good.
    •The remixes are an odd bunch. In Hollywood>Walsh>Norberg. I'm still not convinced that the In Hollywood version is a unique remix. It may by a re-tweaking of the Walsh version, speed corrected and well-EQd. Regardless, I think the In Hollywood CD is the best of the bunch.
    •The mono mix is a little soupy, but basically ok. I think it's the best of the LP versions posted.

    In Hollywood is my "top choice" on this one.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  20. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    Why didn't the UK Alan Dell LP's not use the DMM? Is there a big difference in them?
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I do not have either a Dell or a DMM release of that particular title, but I know that for other titles, the differences can run the gamut from "nearly no difference" to very noticeable differences to UK Dell = stereo while DMM Dell = mono.
     
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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Continuing with these Can-Can tracks, does anybody have these?
    R-5157495-1418863393-2548.jpeg.jpg R-3251204-1322411602.jpeg.jpg R-3812070-1345377199-4139.jpeg.jpg
    Or the stereo version of The Movie Years LP? (I have a mono copy.)
    R-2712414-1297643858.jpeg.jpg
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Nifty full-page ad:
    s-l1600-9.jpg
     
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  24. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Well, I had originally bought my copy of the 1960 D3/D4 US stereo LP about 18 months ago, anticipating its use in this sound quality shootout, and now my computer only wants to rip everything in dual mono! Some microphone glitch, evidently (I checked and I have removed my Y-cord). Seeing that the 1984 UK reissues generally have a good track record (what a terrible series of puns), I can't imagine the vintage LP of the original stereo mix sounding better, but I will try to resolve my technical issue and eventually provide all the Sinatra tracks from this LP.
     
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  25. Hotdog

    Hotdog Active Member

    Location:
    England, UK
    That looks like a Public Domain album (and not from a well-known company either) . Who knows what their source is (an original 45?), but it sounds fine, apart from some slight noise.

    Can anyone answer my question without me searching through the thread please: I'm assuming that most of the FS Capitol singles after about 1957 have only been re-issued in CD in stereo, and the original mono 45 mixes are missing in digital formats. Correct? I'd be interested in having the mono versions.
     

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