Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

Page 91 of 98
  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Ha! :laugh: Guess what? My file titled "3-25 I Gotta Right to Sing the Blues" -- which I thought was Norberg, because so many his files on my hard drive start with numbers like 3-18 or 2-06, because of their placement in the Complete Capitol Singles set -- is actually the final track from The Capitol Years (disc 3, track 25), so that "mixing/mastering style" that seemed to work well was actually Furmanek/Walsh, not Norberg/Singles, duh! :magoo: Should've known.....
     
    MLutthans, Jun 18, 2018
    #2251
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  2. Zusac

    Zusac Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    I'm sure Norberg will be forgiving!
     
    Zusac, Jun 18, 2018
    #2252
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  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Easy to happen. I didn't remember a Norberg version...
     
    MMM, Jun 19, 2018
    #2253
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    There is one, but not from the Singles set.
     
    MLutthans, Jun 19, 2018
    #2254
    MMM likes this.
  5. grumpy old man

    grumpy old man Forum Resident

    Bonus track from the EOC CD Come Swing With Me.
     
    grumpy old man, Jun 19, 2018
    #2255
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I naively posted this to open this thread nearly five years ago:
    58 months later, here we are......

    I now have clips posted for the final Sinatra/Capitol "Singles etc." track, I Gotta Right to Sing the Blues, here: Non-Album Tracks, 1962 .

    Wow, this is a wholly different track, in terms of sound, compared to anything else in the Sinatra/Capitol catalog, being recorded at Bill Putnam's United Recording, not at Capitol, and there are many mediocre-to-poor sounding releases, but also a few signs of life.

    I chose four that stand out as being "top choices" that stay afloat in the Sea of Duds.

    •1984 Dutch DMM mono Sinatra Sings....of Love and Things LP (audio clip). The stereo layout on this track is a little odd, and the stereo effect just doesn't congeal all that well, especially in spots where the mallets are kind of flailing away over on the left side. The mono version puts all the ducks in a nice, single row, and it's pleasant on its own terms. The mastering may be about 5% brighter than I would prefer, but on this title, that means it's world-class, practically.

    •The Capitol Years CD/LP (audio clip from CD edition). This is a Furmanek/Walsh remix, and it's quite good. There are some problems with the recording that still crop up, even in this very good remix, specifically: Frank's voice sounds a little like he's singing in a padded cell (as we've all had to do from time to time), possibly the result of the type of mic used, the type of baffling used at United, and the overall dryness/proximity of the recorded vocal sound; and the drums are (almost literally) "all over the map" in stereo, as there is leakage from there to Cuba and back, causing a kind of "aural smear" when the drums get aggressive. It's a good mix/mastering on the whole, though, and much drier/cleaner than the original stereo mix. There's only so much you can do with a crappy (to be blunt) United recording like this one.

    •Then there's the original stereo mix, which is a real dog on most masterings, even some that are typically pretty reliably good sources. For instance, I thought the MFSL LP was the audio equivalent of a garage finished only roughed-in to create what realtors may call a "vanilla shell." It's just "blah" and not quite polished or cleaned up. The 1984 UK Dell LP is even blah-er. However (and somewhat surprisingly), the 1998 UK boxed set Sinatra Sings....of Love and Things CD (audio clip) sounds airy and alive and very pleasant. There's also one (literally one) LP that has similarly good sound, and that's the 1973 The Works 10-LP set. Other versions of the original stereo mix? Oof......not so good!

    That's it for now! Recording #121 of 121 is in the books; I'm going to go hang around down by the river! :agree: Thanks to everybody who helped out in big and small ways over the course of this thread. "Much appreciated" does not do it justice. Thank you!

    (I still have a few loose ends to tie up here, and hopefully people will continue to submit clips to fill little gaps that still exist.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    MLutthans, Jun 19, 2018
    #2256
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  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Oak Ridge, Tennessee
    Agreed. Also known as the no bass, mucky midrange, thin and trebly era at Capitol. When Wally Traugott came to work for Capitol Mastering, things began sounding way better.
     
    McLover, Jun 28, 2018
    #2257
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  8. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    My first post on this forum, 3 1/2 years ago, was in this thread...I naively referred to Matt as "Mr. Lutthans"! :nyah:

    Seriously, I had to join the forum because of this thread and what an amazing (and sometimes expensive) ride it has been. Thanks to @MLutthans and everyone else as well!
     
    mahanusafa02, Jul 3, 2018
    #2258
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  9. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I wonder which came first...alternate Sings of Love and Things cover:

    [​IMG]

    Or:

    [​IMG]

    1968 was evidently a strange time...
     
    mahanusafa02, Jul 3, 2018
    #2259
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  10. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Oak Ridge, Tennessee
    ......Strange days have found us!!! This cover art is tres groovy.
     
    McLover, Jul 3, 2018
    #2260
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  11. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I have a newbie question regarding the SQ of both Mobile Fidelity issues of Nice N Easy on vinyl. What is the general consensus on the better sounding pressing? I recently bought the MoFi Sinatra box and picked up the newer pressing recently. Was the same source used for both? The box set pressing is brighter but more open sounding than the later pressing, especially Sinatra’s vocals.

    I prefer the box set pressing.

    I’d love to hear from the experts on this!
     
    Tommyboy, Aug 13, 2018
    #2261
  12. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    In my opinion, the best sounding version is the one that sounds best to yourself. Not someone else.
     
    Tribute, Aug 13, 2018
    #2262
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  13. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Thanks, I think I understand your “theory” quite well. That being said, I’m asking for opinions.
     
    Tommyboy, Aug 13, 2018
    #2263
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  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    MMM, Aug 13, 2018
    #2264
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  15. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Certainly don't consider myself to be an expert but I have both of these and just did a shootout of side 2.

    I could live with either one of these. Here's a comparison of what I found.

    The silver box version is definitely a bit brighter and that makes the voice reverb more noticeable to me. However it still sounds good and since it is on the best vinyl ever made (IMO), the Japanese 80's MFSL vinyl, it has the advantage of being stone quiet.

    The 2002 release is warmer. This makes the vocals sound better to me, but this is a personal choice like all listening preferences. The vinyl is not as quiet as the Silver box version.

    I did not check the ratings on Matt's site before writing this - did not want to sway myself. I will go check that again now - such a fantastic resource and great reading.

    Anyway, to me both releases are really nice.

    On another note, since you just got the Silver box, hopefully it came with the Geo disc. I just started using this to install cartridges - twice this week in fact. I've had it for 6-7 years and had not used it but this is a really great tool.

    Enjoy the FS listening.
     
    teag, Aug 14, 2018
    #2265
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  16. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    My box has the Geo disc.

    I’m doing the same shootout. You’re right, the vocals are brighter on the box set version and the newer version is warmer sounding.

    According to the scorecard the 2008/2009 (I suppose 2002) MFSL vinyl pressing is rated good, while the 1983 MFSL pressing is rated very good.

    The UK Dell pressing was ranked excellent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    Tommyboy, Aug 14, 2018
    #2266
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  17. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Tommyboy, Aug 14, 2018
    #2267
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  18. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I have the Dell box also. This one again sounds good but I like the 2 MFSL LPs more.
     
    teag, Aug 14, 2018
    #2268
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  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    SinatraCapitolCheckedVestMelrose.jpg
    ....and here is one that appears to be mis-identified, date-wise (pardon the watermark):
    s-l1600-472.jpg
     
    MLutthans, Sep 29, 2018
    #2269
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  20. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Los Angeles, CA
    That's what I like to see.
    You guys get a dozen Likes from me for posting those photos.
    Many thanks.
     
    Richard--W, Sep 29, 2018
    #2270
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  21. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I found a copy of the MFP CD of Swing Easy yesterday for $1.99. Sounds great!
     
    Tommyboy, Sep 30, 2018
    #2271
    Ere, mahanusafa02, MMM and 1 other person like this.
  22. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    That’s a great cd. The vinyl included in the mfsl silver box is the best!
     
    teag, Sep 30, 2018
    #2272
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  23. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I still need to play the MFSL LP. So far, Swing Easy/Songs For Young Lovers is one of favorite Sinatra albums.
     
    Tommyboy, Sep 30, 2018
    #2273
  24. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    In case you don't know their history, both were totally separate albums intended for 10" LP, recorded at different times and were not meant to be combined on a single release. YOUNG LOVERS came first, based on mostly existing arrangements Frank had made for his touring act by George Siravo. Nelson arranged "Like Someone In Love" and Dick Reynolds (who I always mix up with Dick Jones) did "Violets For Your Furs". SWING EASY was his next album for Capitol, and the first real full album Frank made with Nelson Riddle.

    These albums were first combined in 1955, on a single 12" LP. That release was proper from a content and tape source point. The individual 12" LPs for each album issued around 1962 (with 1960 catalog #'s) had content added to each album which had nothing to do with the original sessions for either, and were sourced from doctored tapes with added echo and revised eq, on both the mono and fake stereo LP releases of these expanded versions.
     
    MMM, Sep 30, 2018
    #2274
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  25. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    We have separate threads for both albums:

    Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Songs for Young Lovers, rel. 1954*
    Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Swing Easy! - 1954*

    See also Matt’s comparison pages:

    1953 - Songs for Young Lovers
    Swing Easy! - 1954

    I would also suggest the current ongoing discussions at the SFF:

    Index to "Sinatra at Capitol" Discussion Thread
     
    Bob F, Sep 30, 2018
    #2275
    MLutthans, MMM and Simon A like this.
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