Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Songs for Young Lovers, rel. 1954*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  2. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    My British LP's (the Alan Dell digitals in the 20 LP box set from the mid-80's) is the definitive modern-day issue for me even though they're the "extended to 12 tracks by including singles" versions. Very free of echoey effects and absolutely faithful to the original 10" grey label LP's (which I also have in very good condition). Ah, what a fabulous performance of "A Foggy Day"!
     
  3. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    BTW: Matt, if you want samples from the British LP's, I'll be glad to send you a few.
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I may take you up on that. I've got a few of them, including Songs for Young Lovers, which is included on the sample page.

    Matt
     
  5. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Although I never bother to buy the latter-day compilations of Sinatra stuff (since I have the MoFi, British LP's and CD's, and the Walsh and Norberg "Concepts"), I noticed that "Classic Sinatra 2" was remastered by one David McEowan.

    I noted that Matt placed a sample of the David McEowan-mastered "Classic Sinatra 2" disc on his "Young Lovers" sample page, and I thought McEowan did a fine job of reproducing the sound of the original 10" LP.

    I wonder what Capitol's reasoning for having McEowan revisit the tapes for "Classic Sinatra 2"? Did someone at Capitol finally realize that nobody liked the job that Mr. Norberg did on them in 1998? Did the Sinatra family ask for Capitol to revisit the mastering (I know that Nancy has heard nothing but complaints over the Norberg remasters on the Sinatra Family Forum)? Nancy claims that "Capitol no longer exists" and that there's absolutely nobody there anymore that cares about doing anything "right".
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Actually, the sample I posted is from "Romance: Songs from the Heart."

    Matt
     
  7. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Do you personally like the McEowan's work Matt? I have a hard time telling, listening on computer speakers. I will invest in these various insundry compilations if McEowan is finally doing the Capitol master tapes justice.
     
  8. Sean Keane

    Sean Keane Pre-Mono record collector In Memoriam


    Dave is great. He remastered the Bobby Darin Exemplar titles from the stereo masters and they're dandy.
     
  9. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Thanks for the comment Sean. I will go down tomorrow and blow $20 on the McEowan mastered discs. So I know what to buy can you confirm that the first "Classic Sinatra" disc is mastered by Mr. Norberg, but "Classic Sinatra II" and "Songs From the Heart" are McEowan's??
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Dave is a great guy and I love talking with him but his room is so full of "restoration gear" that it makes me nervous. He learned everything from Bob Norberg. I wish he'd forget a few things. Dave truly loves the music. He's a fan and wants to do it justice.

    Just give us a pure, clean signal and forget the friggin' boxes. Sometimes restoration is just using the correct analog tapes and bypassing all of that goofy computer stuff.
     
    McLover and wwright like this.
  11. Sean Keane

    Sean Keane Pre-Mono record collector In Memoriam

    I think so, and, as I've stated here just a while back, I have a feeling that Capitol will release an audiophile worthy Frank Sinatra collection someday not all that far-off. Boy, oh, boy - I wish I knew someone there - I have THE idea.
     
  12. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The Walsh CD (which I have always thought was pretty good) doesn't stack up too well alongside this competiton. It has an unpleasant, nasally tone that the others don't.

    The MoFi sounds very good. The 'winner' for me so far.

    I need to start saving for one of those MoFi boxes.:shake:
     
  13. Sean Keane

    Sean Keane Pre-Mono record collector In Memoriam

    If I recall correctly, Songs From The Heart is by Dave, and it's generally very good. Compare Where Or When to all other previous issues and you'll notice the improvement of openness and clarity. He seems to have used one of those machines Steve mentioned, but only for one song, as far as my limited understanding of this stuff goes. At the crashing end of Too Marvelous For Words, the orchestral echo seems to swirl around as if in a drum (NR?), when on the other tracks it drifts out naturally.

    As far as his ways being influenced by Bob, I hear none of that on the Darin discs, which a couple of members here have also called excellent.
     
  14. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .

    You are correct.
     
  15. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN




    Thanks for chiming in Mr. Hoffman. It's always an honor to hear from you, especially on stuff that's dear to my heart like vacuum tube era Sinatra.

    Since I don't have copies of any of McEowan's work, I can't yet tell if he did the Sinatra stuff justice. I do notice from listening to the crappy MP3's on Amazon's site that his execution of "Wee Small Hours" and "Skin" totally lack reverb (but sound appropriately "forward") so maybe he's doing the right thing, despite Mr. Hoffman's suspicions. I'll know tomorrow after I get over to Target to buy these two compilations. With all the Sinatra stuff that's come out over the past few years, I didn't even notice that the "Songs From the Heart" has a unreleased take of "Nice and Easy" on it (although not the overtly sexual one that's found on some bootlegs that I've heard).
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    My Funny Valentine on Songs from the Heart (McEowen) is, to my ears, fairly heavily EQd. Far from my favorite.
     
  17. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Thanks for your remarks Matt. I'm going to buy the two CD's anyway tomorrow and see how they stack up when played on something better than cheap computer speakers. It's only $20 or so!
     
  18. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The McEowan 'Romance' is startlingly all over the map, sonically. Some of it like 'Skin' sound, passable? while other things, like 'All The Way' sound like Norberg. Overall, it's not great, unless you're a fan of excessive use of NR.

    Back to Songs For Young Lovers...:righton:
     
  19. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Sorry for getting off the subject Greg and others. I'll shut-up now and just observe the thread.....
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    :ignore:Geez, we don't have to run this thread like we're the Gestapo or something. If things wander a bit here and there, I think we'll survive. Let's just try to avoid another medusa monster like we had in that old original thread.

    :ignore:

    Matt
     
  21. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I've just been playing the samples back and forth for 30 minutes solid, slowly eliminating them one by one, there are quite noticeable differences in them, until I get to the last two that I've narrowed down as the best two, for those I'm finding it difficult to decide which one I prefer as the differences are so very subtle

    The two winner's for in no order as I can't decide are....

    1. MFSL LP from 1982, mastered by Stan Ricker, and established to be from the correct, dry tapes.

    2. The 1995 CD from EMI’s “Music for Pleasure” budget-line series, mastered by Larry Walsh.

    The MFSL seems ever so slightly louder but that could be down to what level the DU meter's we set on transferring from vinyl to CD, other than that I'm finding it hard to hear any real differences between the two.
     
  22. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The EMI MFP is NOT mastered by Larry Walsh, Graham. They used the same booklet as the U.S. CD, but failed to remove the credits.

    Never believe what is written on a Capitol CD insert. They do that often.
     
    McLover likes this.
  23. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Hi Bob

    I did wonder that myself and in the Capitol recording quality thread I did mention this, the above quote you referenced by me was actually copied directly from Matt's samples page.

    You know thinking about this more and more, the way Capitol have treated the Sinatra catalogue is nothing but a disgrace and hardly surprising there's so much confusion.

    Bob it was hoped that MOFI would put out all the Capitol titles, but Sean Keane seems to think FSE have a problem with this hence no more titles from MOFI, do you think this is actually the case or is there more to it, I don't want to upset Nancy by asking this but it is a question I feel needs asking but I don't know how to Broach the subject on the family forum.
     
  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Graham, I've asked Nancy. She didn't know. If Sean is correct, it was likely due to corporate legal involvement. What Sean and others fail to understand is that the "family" does not necessarily have control of such things.

    This sort of discussion has caused threads to be closed. May I suggest we move on and not rehash old uncredited rumors which have nothing to do with sound quality? :)

    P.S. Don't assume that Nancy doesn't read this forum. ;)
     
  25. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I've never heard those British LPs, but I'm curious about this.

    I thought the post-1960 expanded reissue LPs of SE! and SFYL (Capitol W-1429 and W-1432) came originally (in the US) with excess reverb. Was that not the case? Or did Alan Dell not use full album master tapes for his 1984 digital reissues? Did he go back to the "good" tapes (or, more likely, dubs of the good tapes), including the added singles tracks, for these two albums?

    BTW, besides being "extended to 12 tracks by including singles," those reissue albums have scrambled the order of the original eight songs on the 1954 10-inch LPs. Capitol totally destroyed the concepts. I wouldn't be able to enjoy them no matter how pleasing the sonics. I mean, who wants to hear "Lean Baby" in the middle of the glorious masterpiece that was SWING EASY!?
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine