Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Where Are You?" (1957 album)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs sitting in the back of a car

    Hey Matt, I missed this thread as well... I have a 9 o'clock stereo copy. Stay tuned.
     
  2. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Forum Resident

    Thanks Bob, and Matt. Great thread. The recommendations are much appreciated.
     
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  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Yeah, we're pretty much in agreement, which is nice. :) I'm not nuts about the common stereo LP mix, either; love the stereo tape; admire (don't love) the mono mix, and in strict sonic terms, it's not my favorite, but I think that in terms of "historical accuracy" and cohesiveness, the mono is the way to go. Hard to argue otherwise.

    If anybody else wants to check out the clips, see this post.

    @Arkoffs -- I'll get the new clips posted soon. Thank you!
     
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  4. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Member

    Location:
    Berlin
    I'm glad to be of help. It's always nice to read these discussions, they made me hunt down all the Walsh CDs a few years ago ... only two of them left on my list. I wonder why Close To You and Point Of No Return are so rare, while others are still available on Amazon!
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    The Walsh Close to You and More was always extremely rare in the US. It went out-of-print long before the other concept album CDs. One explanation I've seen is that Sinatra himself was displeased by the inclusion of "There's a Flaw in My Flue" as a bonus track, but I don't know if that's the reason.

    Am I wrong that Point of No Return is still available (—> amazon.co.uk/dp/B000002UDN)?
    Did you mean instead Sinatra's Swingin' Session!!! and More? That's the other early Walsh CD which appears to not be (or never have been?) available in the UK.

    See my list here —> Larry Walsh EMI-Capitol CDs: Amazon UK links.
     
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  6. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Member

    Location:
    Berlin
    I bought Sinatra's Swingin' Session and the Sinatra Christmas Album (which is the same as A Jolly Christmas) last year, the only two that are missing are Close To You and Point Of No Return. I know the latter is available from third party sellers on Amazon, but I'm always a little sceptical when they are selling rare CDs as "new". Even CDs from Amazon itself are not always new. I recently bought a CD from The Jam on Amazon.de that was completely scratched, as was the replacement they sent me. The strange thing is that both CDs were sealed, but not FACTORY sealed ... they were clearly sealed by someone else! I wondere where Amazon is getting its supplies from in some cases!

    However, I see that Point Of No Return is now available for 12.71 Pounds ... maybe I should give it a try. Last week the cheapest offer was over 20 Pounds!

    Edit: The seller of Point Of No Return doesn't ship to Germany ... :(
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    @Arkoffs to the rescue! He has contributed an N22#3 gray-label mono clip here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_3.html
    ...and a D20 9:00 rainbow stereo clip here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_2_3.html

    Thank you!
     
  8. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs sitting in the back of a car

    You're welcome. Can't believe I didn't notice earlier that rainbow was missing, about the time I was sorting for a keeper thru various copies of this album some months back.
     
  9. bozburn

    bozburn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrollton, GA
    Loving the thoroughness of the page, Matt! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    [​IMG]
    Here are the liner notes from the 1975 12-song stereo edition release in Holland:
    SinatraLinerNotesStory2 7.jpg
     
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  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Longtime readers of this thread will recall that @MMM owns a copy of EMI/Toshiba CD #CP28-5779, released in 1988. This is the only instance of a Sinatra/Capitol "concept" album having it's initial CD release in Japan with a unique mastering, this disc using the original stereo mix, not a remix such as with Larry Walsh's 1991 CD edition.

    A few days ago, an Ebay seller was selling a lot of 6 Frank Sinatra CDs, all in "collectors condition," (not entirely true, but close enough) and this CD was included, as was a first-run Japan-for-US copy of It Might As Well Be Swing (in a smooth-sided jewel case, no less), and four other mint-condition releases: No One Cares (Walsh), Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits, I Remember Tommy, and the 1991 edition of In the Wee Small Hours.

    Not a bad haul for $20 plus $4 shipping, especially when the last time I saw that Where Are You disc on Ebay, the BUY IT NOW price was $80. :)

    Pics of that super-rare Japanese CD:
    WhereAreYouJapanCDFace.jpg WhereAreYouJapanBookletCovers.jpg WhereAreYouJapanInsideBooklet.jpeg WhereAreYouJapanTrayCard.jpg
     
  12. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    GOOD GOING!
     
  13. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    $20 seems like a very good price for that disc alone. The rest are gravy...
     
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  14. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Matt, overall how is the Japanese Where Are You? CD? I had been looking at the same auction. From the clips it sounds very similar to the D20 rainbow spires pressing. Could it be a "notable outlier"?--unless it sounds more or less like a unfutzed transfer of the original stereo mix to CD, and isn't different enough from the LPs to count.
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    @mahanusafa02 , since you asked, I'm listening to it for the first time now, and I'm really enjoying it. As I've stated, I'm no big fan of the original stereo LP mix for this album, but this CD seems to be pretty tame (no "steel"-y tone to the vocal). I don't hear any processing here. Sounds very clean and straightforward to me. There's at least one cut (The Night We Called It a Day) with the violins on the right (wrong, wrong, wrong, eternally wrong), but that's a pretty minor thing that won't make most people twitch, I suppose. I also noticed that "Maybe You'll Be There" had the vocal slightly right of center. It may be that way on some other tracks, too, but the tone (the main thing) strikes me as being very nice.

    As far as the original stereo LPs on this title go, if you're looking for a positive view of them, I suppose I'm the wrong guy to ask! (That said, a few of us here recently did a blind listening experiment involving several stereo pressings of WHERE ARE YOU, and the N-cut LP was at the bottom of the heap routinely, so it's not just me, although a D-cut may be an improvement.)

    Lifted from this page and this page, here are a pair of clips:

    •Original D20 LP, from @Arkoffs : http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_2_3_files/WhereAreYouClipD20Stereo-GAIN_01.wav

    •1988 Japanese CD, from @MMM : http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_unabridged_files/WhereClipJapanCD-GAIN_01.wav (There's some odd ticking in the clip that, I assure you, is not on the actual CD, at least not on my copy. I'll need to update that clip, apparently.)

    To my ears, that's a night and day difference, but YMMV, of course!

    •Just for yuks, here's the 1998 UK CD clip from the big boxed set, and this one DOES strike me as having the steel-y tone that some original-mix releases have. Not so good, IMO: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_unabridged_files/WhereClipUK98-GAIN_01.wav

    @MMM : You've got this Japanese CD, and have lived with it for many years. My initial impression upon hearing the disc all the way through for the first time is that it's very well done. It has an openness to it that the Walsh CD (itself quite nice) could put to good advantage, and I don't detect any noise reduction. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
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  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I haven't played the disc in years. Was never in love with the sound, though it wasn't offensive either. Maybe should give it another listen. I like having it for being the only disc of its kind (release/mix history wise), and for it not sounding processed.
     
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  17. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    I found a copy pretty easily.
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    A question I'm embarrassed to have to ask:

    Wikipedia lists Voyle Gilmore as producer, while the 1983 MFSL LP lists Dave Cavanaugh, so which is correct?
     
  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Voyle. The first Sinatra album Dave "produced" was ONLY THE LONELY.

    Not taking away anything from Capitol's producers, but Frank was truly producer on these albums. If anything, Capitol might have had more "say" on some of the material issued on singles...
     
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  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Why no producer credit on regular LP issues on on the 3 CD issues that I have? Odd.
     
  21. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    The book in the Concepts 16-CD box set says the producer was Dave Cavanaugh. So does the sleeve in the MFSL LP box set: "Produced by David Cavanaugh." (Pete Kline is credited with research on that set.)

    However, Leonard Mustazza's book, Ol' Blue Eyes: A Frank Sinatra Encyclopedia, credits BOTH Cavanaugh and Voyle Gilmore as producers on Where Are You?. Perhaps this was a trial run for Cavanaugh, and that is why no producer credits appeared on the album? For sure, Cavanaugh took over completely as Sinatra's producer with Only the Lonely the following year.

    As Martin says, Sinatra was always his own producer at Capitol, in fact if not name.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
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  22. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Re: The Larry Walsh 'Close to You and More' CD
    That was NOT my experience twenty years ago. Perhaps the Internet has made it easier, but I have seen several reports over the years from people who had extreme difficulty locating a copy. Consider yourself lucky.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2015
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  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I had forgotten there was no producer credit on this album. I remembered Voyle was still producer following this, with Cavanaugh credited by ONLY THE LONELY, and going forward.
     
  24. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Forum Resident

    This is the find of the year Matt. Congrats!

    That wonderful pencil drawing on the back cover is also used on the back of the MOFI version, which I now own. Was that on the original LP?

    Yes...I'm only 2 1/2 months into my Frank obsession and I already own 3 CD versions of Where Are You (Norberg, Larry Walsh and the MOFI CD)......
     
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  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Yes, always there.
    R-2144529-1283188127-1.jpeg.jpg
     
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