Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    It's interesting that the version on the Australian LP sounds pretty good, but the other side of the single sounds lousy on its companion LP. I know some adjustment might have to be made to make songs flow sonically from one song to the other, but still...

    Overall, I'd pick Larry's version as best of this as well, but the Australian LP version has merit and in some ways sounds better (though it's too dull/cloudy)
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Could have had something to do with track position, too. Waltz was song #2 on its side, while White Christmas was the last of 10 songs.
     
  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Thursday, September 23, 1954

    On this date, Frank Sinatra recorded three singles at Capitol's Melrose Avenue studios. Arranged and conducted by Nelson Riddle, these may be found in The Complete Capitol Singles Collection:
    • Don't Change Your Mind About Me
      (Music by Imogene Carpenter; lyrics by Lenny Adelson)

      This rather obscure B-side single was issued in 1955 with "Why Should I Cry over You?" (cf. December 8, 1953). It did not appear on LP until 1973, in the Longines Symphonette Society mail-order collection, Sinatra Like Never Before. (Also on the 1983 Australian collector's LP, The Rarities, Vol. 2.)

      NOTE: Capitol Records and most discographies have always credited June Hutton and The Pied Pipers for the backup vocals on this track. However, Hutton (who was the wife of Axel Stordahl and a frequent Sinatra partner on radio and television) was no longer performing with The Pied Pipers in 1954, and the union contract appears to indicate the group may have actually been Virgina Maxey and The Modernaires (see personnel below).​
    The following two songs were commercial record tie-ins for the Warner Brothers motion picture Young at Heart. They were paired on a Capitol single, timed to coincide with the upcoming movie release in December. These singles came in the wake of the hit song "Young-at-Heart" (cf. December 9, 1953), which contributed its title to the movie, but they failed to achieve its success. For additonal song details, see the earlier Warner soundstage sessions for the corresponding film soundtrack recordings of these tunes (July 12, July 13-14, and August 25, 1954).
    • Someone to Watch Over Me - Take 20
      (Music by George Gershwin; lyrics by Ira Gershwin)
      (From the 1926 musical Oh, Kay!, sung by Gertrude Lawrence)

      This beautiful Riddle ballad arrangement was first released on LP in the expanded reissue of Sinatra's first Capitol album, Songs for Young Lovers (1962). It appears as a bonus track on the CD reissue of Nice 'n' Easy, as well as in numerous CD collections, notably The Capitol Years.

    • You, My Love - Take 8 (see below*)
      (Music by Jimmy Van Heusen; lyrics by Mack Gordon)
      (Introduced by Frank Sinatra for the 1954 movie Young at Heart)

      This was the A-side of the single. It first appeared on LP in the 1959 compilation Look to Your Heart.
    Musicians (27): Milt Bernhart (trombone); George Roberts (bass trombone); Vincent DeRosa, John Cave (French horn); Harry Klee, Champ Webb, John Hacker, Mahlon Clark, Jules Kinsler (saxophone/woodwinds); Gerald Vinci, Walter Edelstein, Harry Bluestone, Mischa Russell, Alex Beller, Victor Bay, Eudice Shapiro, Marshall Sosson (violin); David Sterkin, Stanley Harris, Maxine Johnson (viola); Cy Bernard, Eleanor Slatkin (cello); Kathryn Julye (harp); Bill Miller (piano/celeste); Allan Reuss (guitar); Joe Comfort (bass); Alvin Stoller (drums).

    Vocal Chorus on "Don't Change Your Mind About Me" (5): Virgina Maxey, Alan Copeland, John Drake, Francis Scott, Hal Dickinson.

    __________________
    ~ Frank's Albums

    * The take number of "You, My Love" is reported by Martin Melucci (MMM), as contained on the label of his 12-inch single-sided 78 rpm acetate. (The label is date-stamped "NOV 3 1954", which was likely the date the single was mastered in advance of the movie release on December 16th.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2013
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  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    View attachment 292829
     
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Clips are now posted here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1954_-_SinglesEtc10.html
     
  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The Australian LP is clearly superior. There's something a little off sounding in the eq, but it's at least a good source for adjustment...
     
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: Someone to Watch Over Me and You, My Love

    Was the initial release of these two songs on the Frank Sinatra Sings Songs from his Warner Bros. Picture Young At Heart EP, catalog number EAP 1-571 (not the earlier one, just titled Young-at-Heart)? I think that (surprisingly, at least to me) may be the case.

    Billboard, November 27, 1954:
    November271954 Sinatra.png $(KGrHqEOKnQE2(iN,7cyBNw5J+wwcQ~~_1.JPG

    Here's the earlier EP with a similar title, but different contents:
    $(KGrHqNHJEIFElKu3)6TBRJ6KzciF!~~60_3.jpg

    The single, #2993, was not mentioned in Billboard until December 4, 1954, in the "Reviews of New Pop Records" section:
    Screen shot 2013-10-10 at 12.57.03 AM.png
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    That's only the next week after the issue which talked about the rush to release the EP. Since Billboard was published on Saturdays, the single was probably released on Monday, November 30—too close to make a judgement of which came first, based solely on mentions in the newspaper. The EP and the single could have been released simultaneously; or they may have been separated by just one week.

    P.S. Of course the earlier "Young-at-Heart" EP and single were unrelated: The movie took its title from the hit song, recorded a year before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Just a point of clarification: Although the article about the EP is from the November 27, 1954 issue of Billboard, the article itself is dated November 20, 1954.

    [MOD: Dates fixed. :righton:]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  10. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The quote, "Capitol Records this week issued a rush EP," in an article dated Saturday, November 20 (published November 27), might mean the EP release was on Monday, November 22. I mentioned Monday, November 30 [sic: should have been 29*] as the single release date, but it could easily have been a week earlier. The Billboard reviews often lagged the actual releases. In any event, the single and EP releases may have been separated by two weeks at most, which is not so much as to be surprising.

    *The booklet in THE CAPITOL YEARS 3-CD box set pins down the release date of "Someone to Watch Over Me" on Capitol #2993 as 11/29/54. It's not inconceivable that the EP did not hit store shelves until the same date.
     
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  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Sorry to flog a dead horse, but in the December 4, 1954 Billboard issue, Capitol's paid, full-page "buyboard" lists the single as a "latest" release.
    Screen shot 2013-10-10 at 7.22.51 AM.png
    Screen shot 2013-10-10 at 6.50.33 AM.png
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    ^^^ Exactly. December 4 was the Saturday after release day, Monday, November 29, 1954.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    BTW, Does anyone know EXACTLY when the US release day changed from Monday to Tuesday?
     
  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    That's the version you really need to find, Matt...the pre-wax cylinder. ;)
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Talk about delayed releases, that puts MFSL to shame. :)
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Going back a few sessions, here's a quick tidbit regarding "Take a Chance."

    Yesterday, I bought a clean-looking D4 45 RPM pressing, and I tinkered with it for maybe a full hour trying to get it to sound good via "cleanup" and EQ, and there's just no hope for it, as it has a very pronounced (severe???) "mid-range hump," with rolled off treble and rolled off bass. It brings nothing new to the table. I've added it to the "avoid" box.

    I also bought a D (D1, I think, but don't have it in front of me) 45 of When I Stop Loving You/It Worries Me, and it's compressed to death, even worse than the N 45 pressing that's already posted.

    These old Capitol 45s......nothing to write home about!
     
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  18. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Also in the December 4, 1954 issue of Billboard, in response to the 1954 Disk Jockey Poll, Sinatra placed his own full-page advert highlighting his successes that year in films and recordings: "Thanks Fellas ... Busy, busy, busy— Frank"

    Billboard-Dec-4-1954-p39.jpg

    Billboard-Dec-4-1954-p39-lower.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
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  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    It's basically why I didn't pursue them after only buying a few years ago. I had a feeling they wouldn't be anything special, sonically.
     
  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    As this thread grows, it becomes harder and harder to keep track of all the contributions. :) I started hunting for similar photos of Frank, so as to date the one in that ad. Turns out it was already posted by Matt at the very start of the thread. It's from the first Capitol session with Stordahl on April 2, 1953. My apologies for the duplication.
     
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Very interesting. THE CAPITOL YEARS version sounds best to me.

    I'm curious - does the CLASSIC SINATRA version sync with this, Matt? I wonder if it's a processed version of the above...it shares a passing resemblance in sound.

    I remember comparing the Walsh "bonus track" of this years ago to THE CAPITOL YEARS, and being surprised at the difference in sound, and how much inferior the bonus track is sonically. I think that might be from the "wrong" tapes - from the expanded SONGS FOR YOUNG LOVERS album. The track from the UK 98 disc of that album sounds very similar, though also sounds noise reduced to me.

    The versions from the SCREEN SINATRA LP and "Dell" LP of YOUNG LOVERS sound similar.

    The SCREEN SINATRA CD version is a little muddy.
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Martin, anything that was derived from anything else is noted in the fine print:
    Screen shot 2013-10-10 at 8.48.50 PM.png
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Also, that SCREEN SINATRA LP from 1980 is a really odd duck. The tone is quite warm across the board, and it's a very pleasant listen....except for the glaring flaws. All tracks are "mono," but several are fold-downs from Duophonic versions -- but with warm, pleasing tone -- and several of the later tracks are fold-downs from the stereo mixes -- but with warm, pleasing (mono) tone.
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    In fact, it so surprised me, that tonight I fiddled around some more and came to learn that the gray'd out part of the quoted post is 100% garbage! (Mea culpa.) I had my "mid" setting goosed, which was adding distortion. Tonality is NOT negatively affected by running these Norberg masterings through a mid-side processor. In fact, it works pretty well. In fact, if we were to have a thread called "Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality: "Look to Your Heart," the winner on about 10 of the 12 tracks would be the "mid" component of the Norberg Singles box, and I'm not kidding.
     
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  25. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Eager to hear the results!
     

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