Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

Page 31 of 98
  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    There's a Nugget of truth wrapped somewhere in that Riddle.
     
    MLutthans, Mar 9, 2014
    #751
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  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    <groan>
     
    Bob F, Mar 9, 2014
    #752
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  3. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    If Silva was working off the AFM sheets, as I suspect he was, then he's probably correct regarding the arrangements. The contracts of the period typically, though not always, listed the arrangers and how much they were paid for the charts, but did not specifically mention what titles were arranged, or by whom. It is likely, then, that the contract makes no mention of Cavnauagh other than that of leader. As an example, here is a snippet of the union sheet for Nat Cole's 1950 "Mona Lisa" session. As you can see, three arrangers receive credit and it's very easy to determine, based on how much he was paid, that Riddle wrote only one chart for the session.
    3-11-50.png

    As for Cavanaugh, as Bob rightly points out, he is best known for his A &R work, first in New York and later in Los Angeles. However, in addition to the albums/singles he did for Nat, he also wrote for several other Capitol artists (and under his own name) earlier on in his Capitol tenure, including Sammy Davis Jr., Kay Starr, and Ella Mae Morse, to name a few.

    And for what it's worth, Riddle (and Vern Yocum) was pretty meticulous with his ledger entries. If he was paid to do these charts, I guarantee he kept a record of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
    jtaylor, Mar 9, 2014
    #753
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  4. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    SIDE NOTE: I have a couple of Sinatra single 45's with the original Capitol brown/purple sleeves. I'll have to dig them out and see what they are.
     
    DLant, Mar 9, 2014
    #754
  5. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    ADDITION:
    They are all Scranton pressings. The singles are brown/red paper sleeves, to correct myself. The EPs are the glossy cardboard sleeves.

    They are:

    "Lean Baby" - D1 / "I'm Walking Behind You" - D3 #2

    "Young at Heart"- D1#2 / "Take a Chance" - N2

    Sessions with Sinatra EP
    - Side one is D2#2
    - Side two is D2

    French Foreign Legion EP
    - Side one is D1
    - Side two is D1
     
    DLant, Mar 9, 2014
    #755
  6. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Also came across this great Facebook page dedicated to the old Capitol pressing plant in Scranton, PA. Some nice photos on there too.
     
    DLant, Mar 9, 2014
    #756
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Calling W.B., calling W.B........

    Re: Not as a Stranger

    Several days ago, I posted a clip (courtesy stevelucille) of an original 1955 N1 45, and commented that this was the first 45 in this survey thus far to have no evident compression applied. This weekend, I picked up a D1 45, which by all rights should be superior, but it's heavily compressed. I've got audio now posted here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1955_-_SinglesEtc12.html, but that's not really why I'm bringing this up.

    I'm wondering if perhaps the N1 45 was a contract pressing or something? If that might explain the lack of compression?

    Here's the label from Steve's N1 45:
    not as a stranger N145 001.jpg
    and here is my D1 45:
    Not as a Stranger D1 45.jpg

    and a comparison of the waveforms, showing the obvious difference in dynamics between the two:
    NotAsAStrangerN1-D1.gif
    (Interesting, too, to note the different text regarding Stanley Kramer/United Artists.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
    MLutthans, Mar 10, 2014
    #757
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  8. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    N1 was cut in New York, apparently the way they cut it wasn't swarmed/swamped with compression the way the Melrose-cut D1 was. (Sort of jibes with our webmaster speaking of how some lacquers cut from later-generation dubs as N1 was, sometimes sounding better than, say, a D1, because of the way they were cut.)

    But the first label (with the N1) was indeed Scranton-pressed, but with different fonts from usual Scranton pressings of the time. The printer of that label (which I know not of, unlike their usual printer Keystone whose typesetting - which likewise cited "United Artist[sic] Release" on the label - can be seen here) came onto the scene in early 1955 to handle LP labels for Capitol's newly-inaugurated "T" series (which they would do until 1962), and alternated with Keystone on printing 45 labels up to the end of 1959. The second label (with D1) was a Bert-Co printing job.
     
    W.B., Mar 10, 2014
    #758
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Thanks, W.B. I knew you'd have some good info on this!
     
    MLutthans, Mar 10, 2014
    #759
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Did anybody here actually purchase and download the Amazon.com mp3 version of the "Forever Frank" album? I see it has been pulled from the Amazon site.
     
    MLutthans, Mar 10, 2014
    #760
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I picked up my first-ever domestic LP copy (D5/D8, or some such thing) of This is Sinatra, Volume Two yesterday, and am playing it now, and boy, this thing sounds wonderful. I recall that dubs were used to cut this LP, but I'm not sure how much it impacted the sound. Very pleasant surprise, IMO.
     
    MLutthans, Mar 10, 2014
    #761
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  12. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    How does "So Long My Love" sound, Matt? That, I believe is one of the worst sounding tracks on the Norberg Singles box. Haven't listened in years, but the term I remember using to describe it was "metallic."
     
    rangerjohn, Mar 10, 2014
    #762
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  13. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Location:
    Quebec City, Canada
    Matt, is there a drastic difference in sound between this new find and the UK Dell LP? How about the 90's UK CD? I know it's a case of apples and tangerines but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this.
     
    Simon A, Mar 10, 2014
    #763
  14. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    You remember correctly. Absolute worst. Hopefully Matt has found a better sounding released edition of that song.
     
    DLant, Mar 10, 2014
    #764
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Can't say that I noticed that track, frankly. Sorry guys. We'll get to it as we work through the thread, I guess. The LP overall sounded quite good, though.

    Re: Half as Lovely (Twice as True)

    I've uploaded a clip from my D9 This is Sinatra, Volume Two LP, here:
    http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1954_-_SinglesEtc8.html

    or via direct audio link here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1954_-_SinglesEtc8_files/HalfAsLovelyD9-cr-GAIN_01-03.wav.

    I think it's the new off-the-shelf "best" version, more-or-less tied with stevelucille's D7 copy, were that copy in better shape.
     
    MLutthans, Mar 10, 2014
    #765
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  16. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Your post made me go and listen to it last night with headphones. It's actually almost painful to listen to. Norberg made it sound so shrill and harsh, void of any sort of that Capitol warmth.
     
    DLant, Mar 11, 2014
    #766
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  17. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    That's exactly how I remember it.
     
    rangerjohn, Mar 11, 2014
    #767
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Here's a clip from the D5 side of the LP: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qgH1HDldamLWw3ZVVULUE0MVk/edit?usp=sharing
     
    MLutthans, Mar 11, 2014
    #768
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  19. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    DLant, Mar 11, 2014
    #769
  20. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Listened to the clip, then switched right over to the Norberg disaster ('cause that's what it is).
    The LP sounds: non-compressed, natural, warm, well-rounded, not pointed.

    Norberg somehow squished the song, and made it sound harsh and pointed all at the same time.

    Now, Matt has me wondering what that whole LP sounds like. I have a duophonic re-issue copy (Matt, if you want that, I will gladly send it to your house for comparison use).
     
    DLant, Mar 11, 2014
    #770
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I appreciate the offer, but we can live Duophonic-free here. :agree:
     
    MLutthans, Mar 11, 2014
    #771
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  22. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    It's a shame that it's duophonic. The vinyl is so clean and new looking. and the cover is in great shape too. Damn, you, Capitol and your duophonic!
     
    DLant, Mar 11, 2014
    #772
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Re: How Could You Do a Thing Like That to Me?

    We had no 45 clips posted, but stevelucille sent along an N1 clip, and I bought a D1 45, and it's very interesting: Again, the N 45 (with the skinny font on the label) is uncompressed, while the D 45 is smooshed. Go figure! (Same situation as with "Not as a Stranger.")

    Clips are posted here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1955_-_SinglesEtc13.html

    Re: If I Had Three Wishes

    I've added a second "D" 45 clip. Same page as above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
    MLutthans, Mar 11, 2014
    #773
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    MLutthans, Mar 11, 2014
    #774
    rangerjohn and Simon A like this.
  25. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    Wow. Quite a contrast! Thanks.
     
    rangerjohn, Mar 11, 2014
    #775
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