Sinatra on Columbia (Official/Authorized Releases)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ShockControl, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Indeed. Serious collectors of a particular artist will always buy product issued by the recognised company. Those who are unsure and are more of a casual buyer initially, may not want to drop serious money into lavish expensive box sets when they are dipping their toe into the artist’s repertoire. Sony got it right with Elvis a year or so ago when they released a 60 CD set of all his albums at a very reasonable price. Couple this with Sony allowing the collectors label Follow That Dream to put out all of the original lifetime albums together with session material and in super 7" packaging, which they have been doing since the turn of the Century and you have a pretty good recipe for fans to buy into all kinds of material and build up exquisite collections. Those fans are simply not bothered by Public Domain hit type releases.
     
  2. A label like Bear Family would produce great boxsets for the complete Sinatra material (Sony&Universal). They did it before with those 4 Dean Martin boxes. But the companies won‘t allow it. Bad.
     
  3. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I believe the Martin estate was completely in support of that Bear Family box series too. It takes support and initiative.
     
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  4. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Yes we have a similar thing in the U.K. with Matt Monro, with the record company not interested in putting out all his material or allowing third party smaller labels access to the tapes without wanting a fortune for the license. Interesting as from what I understand and have read, Frank Sinatra once said that Monro was the only British singer he ever listened to.
     
  5. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    If I recall, the corporate owners canceled all of the archival remastered Matt Monro discs that his daughter produced. They wanted to make sure there would be no new fans to buy more products.
     
  6. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    The Alternate Monro - Matt Monro
    Matt Monro - The Rarities Collection

    Lots of other Matt Monto info may be found in a forum search. Note that Richard Moore (@RMoore) is an SHF member.
     
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  7. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Forum Resident

    I agree, for the most part, with what your saying, but, you have to admit that a few of the companies have done a great service to collector's
    by putting out material that the parent company would never stoop to putting out. Ace Records has done some wonderful work with the Motown Vaults.
    They have put out many obscure Motown artist's ( I wish they would get to Billy Eckstine's Motown recordings) particularly the very, very beginning of
    Motown circa 1958-1962.
     
  8. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Sinatra definitively listened to the immortal Al Bowlly!
     
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  9. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    Ace licences material, but I agree with your point. The basic issue is how the large music corporations act in comparison to the small companies. The small companies (whether legit or public domain/unlicensed) are satisfied with making a profit by selling products. The large music corporations would rather expand their holdings, whether it is in real estate or other capital ventures, and leave most of their music archives unavailable.
     
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  10. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Classical music is inexpensive to issue. It's not like they have to pay the Estates of Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven any royalties. As whether the stuff sells Barnes and Noble has the same classical box sets laying in their stores for years. For as long as I can remember the classical dept of every record store I hung out in was a ghost town.
     
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  11. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    When RCA in the UK issued the complete Dorsey/Sinatra box Columbia was approached to produce a complete Sinatra box. Columbia wanted a firm commitment to purchase from at least 100 Sinatra collectors. The various Sinatra clubs together could not come up with the required amount.
     
  12. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Is that various Sinatra Clubs in the U.K. Did they provide a unit price for the set?
     
  13. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Forum Resident

    Jonathan Schwartz used to tell a story over the air, regarding the Big Blue Box. When Frank Military first approached Sinatra
    as a emissary for Columbia Records and told him Columbia's plans Sinatra got very angry and started talking about Mitch Miller
    and telling him what recordings he did not want to be included, Frank Military just looked at Sinatra and said no it has to be everything.
    Sinatra didn't understand or accept, at the time, the concept of a complete box set, very softly he said to Sinatra " No Frank, it has to be everything "
    I can remember seeing a photo of someone, some executive, presenting Sinatra with a copy of the BBB in Atlantic City, I believe.I
     
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  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Funny...Gary Doctor never asked me!!!
     
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  15. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Mr.S was given the 1st box off the press at the Garden State Arts Center in Holmdel, NJ.
     
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  16. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Forum Resident

    Sure I remember they came for a commitment through one of the fan clubs and couldn't get 100 people to say ok.
     
  17. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    As I previously asked, did they give a unit price? what kind if commitment did they want.
     
  18. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I am not sure you know what is going on in classical marketing now. Most boxes are performer based. There are hundreds of deluxe remastered complete box sets being issued every year and they are selling out. Much greater sales than jazz boxsets or vintage pop. They are all sold on line, and have significant success, because the major corporations are issuing them regularly. The classical "mega-box" movement has been raging for over 10 years and shows no signs of stopping. Out of print sets are being reissued or upgraded. The key thing is that the corporations have given their managers of classical departments permission to do the marketing. Sales are going very well.
     
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  19. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I never received any inquiry, though part of several so called clubs. It is a little hard to believe that their sales goal threshold for a Sinatra set was 100 copies.
     
  20. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Hahaha!!! Me either!

    Thank God they released it anyway!
     
  21. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Dear fellow collectors, fans and experts,
    just been listening to the 10inch long playing album of "The Voice of Frank Sinatra". And what can I say? I've known these recordings all my life, but just discovered that the ONLY way to experience the concept, the mood and the depth of this album is to listen to it as a single Lp album. That way it becomes clear that this album should be realized as the same artistic achievement as Sinatra's later classic Capitol albums. It has the same musical integrity.
    So what am I talking about?
    I deeply feel that Columbia should re-release this album as a ten-inch record!!!
    Just the way that Ume did with "Swing easy" and "Songs for young lovers" a few years ago.
    Why? Because the album itself is somehow lost and buried in the Big blue box.
    And even the Columbia Legacy release of the album (which I love and treasure, don't get me wrong) couples it with ten bonus tracks and again you don't get the mood and the unique characteristic. Even if you stop the Cd after track 8. It's still not there, in my opinion, of course.
    So the only way to present that album on the same level with Wee small hours, Close to you, etc. is to present it as a single Lp!
    It's a milestone album, not only in Sinatra's career, but in the music world itself and it should be presented that way. And no less...
     
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  22. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I would love that. On top of that, despite the fact that very few have proper 78 playback tables/styli, I would also love a reissue of the 78RPM album on high quality vinyl 78s (in addition to a run of all of the Columbia 10 inch LPs).

    Now, if you are talking about the "proper way" to listen to vintage Sinatra, it was one song at a time! Not four songs at a shot as on a ten inch LP. Let that song sink in. Do it again. Then maybe one more time. No one put 78s on while they were cleaning house or reading a book or falling asleep on the couch, as they did in the LP era.

    Side remark: I have always loved the fact that 33 + 45 = 78. Is that God's perfect plan, or what?
     
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  23. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    They got it right. Frank was no square.

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    This year marks the 70th anniversary of the 10-inch LP, which was the first (lowest-numbered) pop LP by any artist (Columbia CL-6001). It’s an ideal year for a reissue to commemorate the format (not to mention the 20th anniversary of Frank Sinatra's passing).

    But… an argument can be made that the best way to experience the concept is as four single records, i.e. as originally released in a 78 rpm album set in 1946 (Columbia C-112) and reissued in a 45 rpm box set in 1950 (Columbia B-112). Or, perhaps as a 2-record 45 rpm EP set such as reissued in 1952 (also assigned Columbia B-112). A big question is: What should be the track order?

    Note that the A-side of the original LP presented the A-sides of the 78 single discs, if stacked on a record changer in the playing order: 1, 4, 2, 3. The LP’s B-side uses the disc order: 1, 3, 2, 4. (The EP duplicates the LP playing order, if its two records are stacked and then flipped.) Back in 1946, it is likely that a Sinatra fan would have stacked the four records’ A-sides in disc number order (1, 2, 3, 4), then flipped the stack and played the B-sides in reverse order (4, 3, 2, 1).

    Playing Order: THE VOICE OF FRANK SINATRA

    1946 78 Album Set (C-112) and 1950 45 Box Set (B-112)
    Disc 1:
    Side A: 1. You Go To My Head
    Side B: 8. I Don't Know Why
    Disc 2:
    Side A: 2. These Foolish Things
    Side B: 7. A Ghost Of A Chance
    Disc 3:
    Side A: 3. Why Shouldn’t I?
    Side B: 6. Try A Little Tenderness
    Disc 4:
    Side A: 4. Someone To Watch Over Me
    Side B: 5. Paradise

    1948 LP (CL-6001)
    Side A:
    1. You Go To My Head
    2. Someone To Watch Over Me
    3. These Foolish Things
    4. Why Shouldn’t I?
    Side B:
    5. I Don't Know Why
    6. Try A Little Tenderness
    7. A Ghost Of A Chance
    8. Paradise

    1952 EP (B-112)
    Disc 1, Side A:
    1. You Go To My Head
    2. Someone To Watch Over Me
    Disc 1, Side B:
    7. A Ghost Of A Chance
    8. Paradise
    Disc 2, Side A:
    3. These Foolish Things
    4. Why Shouldn’t I?
    Disc 2, Side B:
    5. I Don't Know Why
    6. Try A Little Tenderness

    2003 CD (CK-62100) [non-bonus tracks]
    1. You Go To My Head
    2. Someone To Watch Over Me
    3. These Foolish Things
    4. Why Shouldn’t I?
    5. I Don't Know Why
    6. Try A Little Tenderness
    7. A Ghost Of A Chance
    8. Paradise

    Some of the cover variations over the years:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  25. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Not in this particular case (The Voice of Frank Sinatra). The four individual records were not marketed separately. This was planned and executed as a combined eight-song “concept” album, even before the introduction of LP records. I”ll bet the bobbysoxers listened to it that way.
     

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