Sinatra on Columbia (Official/Authorized Releases)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ShockControl, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    There were a few times at Capitol.
     
  2. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany WINNING

    Location:
    Rheinberg, Germany
    Still waiting for the „Master Takes“ box. Nothing new? So I revisit my BBB again...
     
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  3. I think the emphasis here is 'some'.

    A number of the companies have not and almost seem deliberately obstructive in not allowing smaller labels to license material at a sensible cost, thus ensuring material is released lovingly and with due care.

    In this vacuum, particulary in Europe, so-called PD labels are scooping up material and issuing it in all sorts of ways. Dodgy? Yes, of course, but even they wouldn't be releasing material unless they knew it was going to sell reasonably well and bring some money in.

    But by that method, the artists, their estates and the legal owners of the material get nothing. Surely it would make sense for the labels to permit the material to be licensed sensibly. They woudn't even have any work to do - the smaller labels would be doing the heavy-lifting of getting the product to market.

    Best Wishes,
    David
     
  4. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    It is very annoying when labels simply sit on the recordings which then prevents those interested in buying into an artists back catalogue. In some ways, the Public Domain releases have served collectors very well especially those who released Top 40/Chart Hits from the late 50s and 60s. Much if that stuff would not have been available directly from the original label as the tapes were probably lost or destroyed. And whilst I understand that these PD companies do not pay royalties etc, how viable would these releases be if they had to do so, especially in markets that have a relatively small amount of interest. I was quite disappointed when the laws were changed as I had been looking forward to releases covering the chart records from 1963 upwards, especially the more obscure entries.
    When I recently wanted Sinatra's Columbia Recordings, I had three options. Try and find the BBB, but because it had a limited print run, pay silly money, buy a 12 CD Public Domain Set for a fraction of the price or simply go without. You can guess which option I chose. It’s a good job that Apple and Sony keep The Beatles and Elvis catalogue readily available in various ways. In fact the original Beatles albums have never gone out of print. The only choice you have to make if you are new to collecting their stuff is whether you want to buy originals or new pressings.
    Its been nearly 20 years since those big Sinatra box sets were available - if someone is new to collecting Sinatra material and want to buy into the majority of the studio recordings, it doesn’t appear to be that easy, without once again, having to pay collector prices. i was hoping that they would have been re-issued in an updated form by now.
     
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  5. You make some very interesting points. I have also availed myself of PD releases on occasion and have found them generally to be pretty good.

    I guess the frustrating thing for me, is knowing that there are small labels and producers/engineers who are prepared to work very hard to get material out to fans/collectors for minimal profit but yet some of the majors simply refuse to license the material at sensible cost. The majors would be doing hardly any work - cashing a cheque and forwarding some digital files (or occasionally even a tape or two) and then sitting back and letting someone else do the painstaking work.

    I would have thought that any opportunity to get material out, which might then attract new collectors to some of the major's own releases would make sense, but what do I know?

    Best Wishes,
    David
     
  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not everyone’s cup of tea, but there is a fourth option. Download or stream a copy of the BBB, still available officially and authorized by Sony/Legacy:

    » Amazon
    » Amazon UK
    » Apple Music
    » iTunes Store
    » Google Play
    » Spotify (free)
    » YouTube (free in US)
     
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  7. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Yep, there is that fourth option, but I do like physical copies. It’s the era I grew up in. Also, if for some horrible reason in the future, you needed some cash, physical products do allow you to sell the item - downloads etc do not.
     
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I’m with you, but I pointed it out for those who might want to sample Columbia Sinatra for less (or no) expense, and without contributing to the PD bootleggers.
     
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  9. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Agree - there is no financial risk to the big label. Just agree a fee with the third party, get the cheque and hand over the music. I’m sure they would build in some kind of safeguard in the contract that allows for a set number of pressings. The main label would probably be miffed if they handed over the tapes for a reasonable price and then found that the product was flying off the shelves big time giving the small label an amazing profit.
     
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  10. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    In the last five years or so, SONY has released many large CD box sets, mostly with remasters, by many "artists of yesteryear". They just choose not to do it for Frank Sinatra
     
  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Point taken, but weren’t most of those box sets album-oriented, with typically one album per CD (e.g. Elvis, Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis)? Sinatra had relatively few Columbia albums which were not simply random compilations. In terms of difficulty and expense, as well as organization, the remastering of old 78 sources makes a comprehensive Sinatra box set a different kind of project.
     
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  12. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    I would also add that almost every time a new compilation (whether it be a Greatest Hits or themed one like Sings Cole Porter, etc.) of Frank's Columbia recording was released, previously unreleased tracks were included, which made it really neat for the fans and collectors. There were not mere rehashes of the same recordings used over and over again. We are lucking that Chuck and Didier and all others involved with these releases were given the green light to unearth these new gems for us.
     
  13. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Elvis fans are very well served by Sony. About 9 years ago, Sony released a massive Elvis box set called The Complete Masters which had 30 CDs containing every studio recording and "live" master recordings from Sun 1954 right up to his final recordings in The Jungle Room at Graceland in 1976. It also contained acetates of private recordings from 1953, plus many outtakes. I think it contained around 750 tracks. Prior to that, Sony release 3 box sets entitled, The Complete 50s, The Complete 60s and The Complete 70s, and since then, two smaller 20 album box sets have appeared that concentrate on studio and soundtrack albums. Then a couple of years back, and celebrating 60 years at RCA, they released a 60 CD set of all albums released during Elvis' lifetime.

    The real bonus for Elvis fans though is Sony allowing a special collectors label to operate that was set up nearly 20 years ago, which releases a mix of around 9 albums in a year and special books too. In the main, we get double CD sets in 7" packaging which concentrate on the albums originally released but are also crammed with relevant studio outtakes, then there are Soundboard recordings from "live" appearances in the 70s and finally, once or twice a year, large hardcover books with average around 400 pages that concentrate on specific areas or eras of Elvis' career. And to top it off for vinyl collectors, we are offered selected double set gatefold albums which are variations of the 7" CD releases, but with beautiful artwork and alternate sleeves.
    I think at my last count, there were around 65 double 7" CD Sets, 60 5" Soundboard CDs, 15 books and 32 vinyl albums. You certainly need a decent size den to house all of this and a good "flexible" friend.
     
  14. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I would guess that you have more direct contact with Chuck Granata about the following...I expect that Chuck and his associates have not been idle over the last 20 plus years and have actually been doing improved transfers with newer technologies from better source materials for both the commercial Columbia records and the non-commercial (transcriptions, V Discs etc). I would not be surprised if new improved transfers have been completed. Some of Chuck's posts (such as those about the V Discs) have implied this. I also believe improved transfers have very likely been completed for all of the Dorsey sessions and likely the Harry James sessions as well. In addition, I expect some alternate takes or alternate recordings have been transferred which still have never been issued in any form.

    Many fans simply wish for a new true complete compilation of everything in any type of transfer, new or old. I cannot accept an argument that Sinatra's recordings from 1939-1953 are not as marketable as the many dozens of other artists that have had box sets issued by SONY over the past 10-15 years (and many of those include new transfers from the 78RPM era). That is not plausible. It is a real shame.
     
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  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    @Tribute: These may have been repeated earlier in this thread, but here are some of Chuck’s past posts on the topic at the Sinatra Family Forum…

    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 30
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 32
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 33
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 33
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 36
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 39
    THE COLUMBIA YEARS: The Complete Recordings 12cd Box Set 1993  - Page 40
    That last was more than a year ago. Obviously, Chuck has great intentions, but it would appear there has been resistance from the label. (Strictly my guess.) However, I remain optimistic…
     
  16. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany WINNING

    Location:
    Rheinberg, Germany
    So many posts, so many good intentions, but no releases :shrug::shake:
     
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  17. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ talks. Mr. S ain't sellin' or they'd be flooding the market with his catalog.
     
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  18. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    Then allow the Japanese to do it. They do not use the same business model as the USA.
     
  19. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany WINNING

    Location:
    Rheinberg, Germany
    Then they should do it digital only.
     
  20. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I cannot say that I like that thought. It would be better than nothing, but not as good as a cheeseburger.
     
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  21. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    TAKE MY MONEY
     
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  22. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I have a question which may be stupid. I’ve been making my way through the wonderful BBB discs. I just heard “If I Ever Love Again.” That song is remarkably close to “I’ll Never Smile Again.” Way too close. Was this ever a legal dispute?
     
  23. Pal Joey

    Pal Joey Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New York
    [MODERATOR NOTE: Post moved from another thread to this one.]

    I just discovered this thread today, so forgive me for my lateness!

    There was discussion of a remaster/reissue of the Columbia "big blue box" in 2016. Obviously it never happened, but does anyone know WHY it never happened? Is it still in limbo? Has it been nixed? I'd buy the whole megillah all over again to get to hear that material with more sophisticated remastering techniques. But maybe there aren't enough of us....
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    [​IMG]
    Another shot, below. (Forgive me if it's a re-post.)
    s-l1600-440.jpg
     
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  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    One more:
    s-l1600-443.jpg
     
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