Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality: "Sinatra and Strings" (rec. 1961) - incl. NAB/AME EQ, etc.*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by aoxomoxoa, Mar 15, 2012.

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  1. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

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    Hollywood, CA
    My go to remains the Japanese pressing with extra tracks.
     
    paulmock, Mar 27, 2018
    #326
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  2. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    The 1B/1A stereo LP is a very nice record.
     
    MMM, Mar 27, 2018
    #327
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  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    A few of these sides were not sampled on my website, so I have now added them, but they have not provided any substantial changes to the material presented, as they are all pretty "middle of the road" additions. The A-1 (pressed at M-G-M) mono clip may be of some interest, as it represents the very first lacquer cut for this release in mono. Here's a clip, from a copy that is in less-than-perfect shape, and here's a better sounding, later 1C (Columbia) pressing. For comparison, here's the 1B (Columbia pressing) stereo LP that @MMM favors. (I like it too, along with my similar sounding, bought-it-sealed 1D [Columbia] stereo pressing, sampled here.) Remember: 1G was the final cut on side one to use the original stereo mix. After that, it's always the late-60s remix. Here's a clip of that remix from the MFSL LP. (Thanks for the clip, @Blackie!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
    MLutthans, Mar 30, 2018
    #328
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    On side two, 1E* was the last time the original stereo mix was used, after which the stereo remix was used.

    1A stereo, original stereo mix from side two: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1962_-_Sinatra_&_Strings_files/ItMightClipFS1004 1A-GAIN_01.mp3

    MFSL stereo, late-60s remix: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1962_-_Sinatra_&_Strings_files/ItMightClipMFSL-GAIN_01.mp3 (Thanks again, @Blackie.)

    1C mono: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1962_-_Sinatra_&_Strings_files/ItMightClipMono1c-GAIN_01.mp3.

    *The matrix info on the stereo versions is a little confusing. Early pressings were notated with letter first, then hypen, then number, i.e,. A-3, B-6. Once Columbia took over pressing duties for Warner Brothers product, Columbia's notation became the norm, with number first and letter second, no hyphen, i.e, 1A, 1C, 1G. When Capitol took over pressing duties (late 70s????) for Warners, the scribes moved to things like JW-1, WW-1, LW-2, apparently with J= Jacksonville plant; W=Winchester plant; L=Los Angeles plant. I think that the W in the second letter's position meant that the lacquers were cut at Warners. (Please jump in if that's incorrect.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
    MLutthans, Mar 30, 2018
    #329
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  5. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    Very interesting. I was coming on here to comment on how I thought the selections from this album on the 4-CD Reprise Collection sounded better than I’ve ever heard them before (I just listened to them about 20 minutes ago). I had planned on asking whether the Reprise Collection was a unique mastering and/or mix. It appears I’m in for a real treat once I have time to listen to the Complete Reprise Studio Recordings box I just bought.

    Sinatra & Strings hasn’t hit me nearly as quickly as most of the other early Reprise albums. I don’t know why. I picked up two original pressings from a great record store outside Charlottesville, VA, last summer—one stereo and one mono. Unfortunately, they both have a little too much surface noise for my tastes.
     
    CBackley, May 22, 2018
    #330
  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    MMM, May 22, 2018
    #331
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    You can drive yourself crazy trying to find a really good-sounding copy of this one. I'm very happy that I was able to snag a still-sealed original-mix stereo LP a few years back, and that's my go-to. (I agree that there are [pretty subtle] improvements to be had by working your way back from my Columbia-cut 1E/1E to a Columbia-cut 1A/1A stereo LP, but the 1E that I have is probably 97% of the way there, and since it was new, the background noise is minimal, which means a lot on this album.)
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
    MLutthans, May 22, 2018
    #332
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Just re-read my own blathery comments for the first time in a few years, and it looks like I thought (still think???) that the mono mix outdoes the original stereo mix on a couple of tunes, "Come Rain or Come Shine" and "It Might As Well Be Spring." (I do recall really liking my 45 of "Come Rain or Come Shine.") Such a messy album release, sound-wise. Four complete-album stereo mixes done, and it's still a mess.
     
    MLutthans, May 22, 2018
    #333
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  9. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    I’m going to read through this whole thread, but for spoilers’ sake: what’s your preferred digital version of this album (if any)?
     
    CBackley, May 22, 2018
    #334
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

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    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Easy: The first CD release, by a large margin. It's very consistently "not bad."
    From my website, strictly my own take on things:
    Screen shot 2018-05-22 at 11.42.42 AM.png
     
    MLutthans, May 22, 2018
    #335
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  11. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    Thanks!
     
    CBackley, May 22, 2018
    #336
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  12. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

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    Hollywood, CA
    Sure....sure!!!!
     
    paulmock, May 22, 2018
    #337
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  13. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I am! I’m on page two now. This is great stuff!
     
    CBackley, May 22, 2018
    #338
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  14. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Oak Ridge, Tennessee
    NAB= National Association of Broadcasters, before that NARTB (National Association of Radio and Television Broadcasters). This organization set the standards we know today for record and reproduce equalization on tape machines in the very early 1950's when 15 IPS came into use onwards. Standardization of recording and reproduction curves was very important so tapes could be interchanged and have a standard set of curves which enabled tapes to playback anywhere. NAB also set the standard record/reproduce curve for broadcast transcriptions and also was adopted by Columbia in 1949 when the LP disc record was launched. Some history for you.
     
    McLover, May 22, 2018
    #339
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  15. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I looked at the deadwax info on the two copies I picked up last summer on vacation. The mono is A1, B1. The stereo copy is interesting. The sleeve is for an R9, but the record itself is an FS. It also has the “W7” logo, and I forgot what that means. One side of the deadwax looks like the usual writing, and is marked as 1F. However, the other side was machine-stamped, and says it’s 1D.
     
    CBackley, May 22, 2018
    #340
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  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    That's the 1st released stereo mix, but you may prefer an earlier cut of it.
     
    MMM, May 22, 2018
    #341
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Many titles kept the R9 artwork after switching to FS in terms of actual manufacturing (as seen on the LP labels).
     
    MLutthans, May 23, 2018
    #342
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  18. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Location:
    Orange County CA, USA
    Sinatra and Strings will come up behind you when you least expect it and just clobber you over the head. It did the same thing to me. Took me a while to figure it out. Then one day, bam!

    So many great performances, That’s All, It Might as Well Be Spring, the re-done All or Nothing at All. It was That’s All that killed me.

    And finally, Stardust. Which I have to say, is simply a performance for the ages, and he didn’t even do the main part of the song. I listen to that performance and I just think, my god, how could anyone do what Sinatra does? Listening to this performance is like some universe opening up.

    I can’t believe I initially disregarded this album. It’s one of the greatest ever, by anybody!!
     
    DmitriKaramazov, May 23, 2018
    #343
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  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    My take on the Stardust thing is that I like it ok, but it's kind of a gimmick, a bit of a cutesy move, "too clever by half" (ironically). I think that had they used that as the intro -- an absolutely fantastic intro -- to the song as a whole, it may have moved into "Lonely Town" territory, i.e., a "reach out and grab you" intro, followed by a fantastic rendition of the remainder of the song. I could easily see that running 5 minutes and being absolutely jaw-droppingly good, a real "statement" of a take on a classic song, rather than a very interesting historical asterisk in the sea of "Stardust" renditions through the years.

    (Again: I like it as it is, this is not a "hate" on the version as it exists. I just think that it could have been so much more!)
     
    MLutthans, May 24, 2018
    #344
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  20. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    FS’s version of “Stardust” on this album is wonderful, but it usually just makes me want to listen to Nat “King” Cole’s stellar take on it.
     
    CBackley, May 24, 2018
    #345
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  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Frank's version here is very nice, but it would be hard to beat, or even match, Nat's version.
     
    MMM, May 24, 2018
    #346
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  22. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    When I was six years old my first favorite Sinatra song was "Stardust" the Dorsey version. A few years later, still a kid, I got the Reprise version and was very anxious and excited to go and listen to it. I remember I was so disappointed when the recording ended after the verse was over! I even checked the record because I thought something was wrong with it. Okay,I was only a kid back then and now as a (almost:D,at least in years) grownup I can appreciate Sinatra's verse only rendition. But still after all these years in the backroads of my mind a voice gently says "Too bad he didn't record the whole song".
     
    roda12, May 24, 2018
    #347
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  23. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Yes! On Hoffman/Grey 45 rpm if possible. Gordon Jenkins did a fantastic job on that.
     
    teag, May 24, 2018
    #348
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  24. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Maybe eventually when someone else has the decision to make.
     
    teag, May 24, 2018
    #349
  25. BluRayVen

    BluRayVen Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New Mexico
    MLutthans can I get both labels scans of this issue from you? I have P-7715 but it's still factory sealed and I need the scans to add to Discogs. Thanks
     
    BluRayVen, Aug 16, 2018
    #350
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