Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality: "Sinatra and Strings" (rec. 1961) - incl. NAB/AME EQ, etc.*

Here are pics of the 4-track tape cartridge release:

 

Here's something odd:

If you have a system (or headphones) with really solid bass response, could you listen to "Night and Day" and tell me if you hear what sounds like traffic noise (maybe a semi-truck pulling up) at about 2:42 (depending on which mastering you play), during the "of me" part of "under the hide of me?" I hear it clear as a bell on my Japanese LP and to a lesser -- but bassy-er -- degree on the suitcase track. I don't recall hearing anything like that on any other Capitol or Reprise tracks. It's in the right channel, at least primarily.

Maybe I'm just hearing things???

 

I'm still not sure about the 1991/1995 mastering being a vintage mix or a remix, and this sort of thing has come up for much debate in the past with other Reprise titles of the 3-track era.

•For a time, we thought the original Ring-a-Ding Ding CD was a remix, then we thought it was the quickly-deleted, original 1961 mix, then went back to (I guess) thinking it's a remix. (Or something like that. Very confusing. Maybe it was the 1998 CD.)
•I'll maintain until my dying breath that I Remember Tommy was at least partially (if not totally) remixed for it's first CD release.
•Part of The Concert Sinatra's 1998 EOTC CD release are demonstrably remixed, yet for the bulk of the disc, the sound seems to be indistinguishable from the original mix.

All three of those titles's lineage are detailed at the bottom of this page: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1961_-_I_Remember_Tommy3_2.html

A similar amount of uncertainty seems be be laid out for Sinatra and Strings' initial CD release (and suitcase). I am currently leaning toward this being a very-similar-to-the-2nd-original-mix remix, but am not yet 100% sure. Some passages really strike me as being different.

Clip #1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qgH1HDldamWU56dlRYT2UwSEk/edit?usp=sharing
This clip starts with my Japanese LP (not in the best of shape), then plays the same clip from the suitcase CD. The LP sure sounds darker and soupy-er to my ears, and the reverbs also sound different. Listen, specifically, to the reverb on the "S" in "as a puppet:" The LP version has a cavernous, chamber-like reverb, while the CD has a reverb that more strongly reacts to the "S" sound, leaving a kind of a splatter-y tail in the sound, which makes me suspect (key word) that the LP is using a chamber, while the CD is using either plate reverb or a digital version thereof.

Clip #2: Again, it's Japanese LP first, suitcase CD second: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qgH1HDldamZzduRUtOd2w3aWc/edit?usp=sharing
Again, I'm just not sure these are sourced from the same mix. I'm also not sure they are not!

Please listen and share your thoughts.

 

Do you think there's a chance that Lee Herschberg was involved with both the 2nd 1960s stereo mix and the first CD mix?

 

Anybody know the story behind these "Polymax Process" 45s?

I found a similar set from The Concert Sinatra.

 

So...the one that you sent to me via USPS is not your "go to" copy? I'm confused! I've also been listening to my dub of your LP, and it sounds very good, although I'm confused as to which LP it actually is!

 

I've been taking a few days to transfer some vinyl copies, and I'm waiting for a couple of other copies to arrive in the mail, but in the meanwhile, here are my initial impressions regarding stereo versions, just to get the chit-chat ball rolling a bit:

Recording, in general: This strikes me as a well done stereo recording, although, as is his habit, Bill Putnam does let his inner Bill Putnam run free in a few spots, and I suspect those things (i.e., the reverb effects on the strings) are "printed" to the 3-track, but they are much more subtle than on, say, the Hefti album, where Putnam really lets his freak flag fly.

It sounds to me like the track layout is as follows:
Left: Strings (all of them, including bass), woodwinds, keyboards, sometimes harp
Center: Frank's vocal, dry or nearly dry
Right: String reverb*, brass, percussion, guitar, sometimes harp

*Probably done this way so that in strings-only sections, the recording wouldn't go ultra-left-heavy. I think it works pretty well.

I'll have to check, but I think that's pretty similar to what was done for I Remember Tommy, i.e., having the rhythm section split left/right.

•Original stereo mix: I agree with Martin that Columbia did a better job mastering this than Ami Hadini (or whoever it was at pre-WB Reprise) did. In other words, the FS-1004 copies of the original mix are better sounding than the R9-1004 copies, at least the ones that I've heard so far. Very nice job in handling the orchestra and keeping it (by and large) from reaching into Mantovaniville, which would add a heaviness to a potentially dark, heavy album. This mix keeps both the vocal and the orchestra non-soupy and a little fluffy, which works in its favor, IMO. The slapback/Elvis reverb ranges from non-existent to non-bothersome to distracting, depending on the song.
•Second stereo mix (1960s LP era): Leans toward dark and soupy. The slapback is gone, but an extra layer of stereo reverb seems to be on everything.
•First Stereo CD remix: Very, very similar to the second stereo LP mix, but with a slightly lighter reverb, one that is less cavernous/dark. Not quite as soupy.
•Second Stereo CD remix (EOTC): My initial impression is that this disc (thanks, aoxomoxoa, for physically mailing it to me so I could get a feel for it) does a great job at capturing the non-soupiness of the original stereo mix, and the vocal is essentially dry, which is nice. That said (and again, this is first impressions), the vocal tone seems to have a serious lower-midrange hump to it, like Frank is guest hosting a FM stereo broadcast. I also agree with somebody earlier in the thread who mentioned that the vocal is too prominent. The mix has some nice qualities, but it's too dang loud and just a little "off" in terms of tone and balance, IMO.

I haven't done much with the mono stuff yet, but I will, and I'm not anywhere close to trying to pick a favorite, but so far I am really enjoying that original stereo mix, despite the slapback, which is kind of equivalent to having a hot date with Salma Hayek,

(or some other attractive model/actress) only to have a Boris Karloff mad scientist character come by the house and replace Salma's head with that of Arnold Ziffel.

Yeah, you've still got a date with Salma Hayek (representing the beautifully presented orchestra), but over dinner it's kinda tough to get around the fact that she now has the head of Arnold Ziffel (the slapback vocal). How much should you let that bother you? Your call! On the other hand, it beats eating a soup-only dinner by yourself.

 

If you put a little lipstick on Arnold, he's not half bad to look at. Just don't order the bacon burger.