Sinatra - Swingin' Affair & Larry Walsh 1991 Mastering

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Gary Freed, Jul 5, 2002.

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  1. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I was in Tower Records and they had 20 copies of Sinatra's Swingin' Affair
    mastered by Larry Walsh in 1991.

    How does the 1991 version compare with the 1998 20-bit Version

    Best Regards,

    Gary S. Freed
     
  2. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Go with the older CD. It sounds alright. May have been remixed.
     
  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The 1991 CD of "A Swingin' Affair!" ain't bad and is definetly preferrable to the current 20-bit Bob Norberg CD (it's actually one of the best mastered Sinatra Capitol concept album CD's out there - relatively speaking of course). No NR or any of the other BS processing as on the current CD. In the "Sinatra Capitol 20 & 24-Bit Masters" thread on this forum I remember saying something to the effect of the 1991 CD not having quite the correct tonality in one long post in trying to help people find the best version of this or that out there on CD. I should have explained better. The tonality on the 1991 CD is not weird or nasal or anything - it's just not as it should be. It doesn't have the bass, warm tone, etc. that it should have. No tubey magic either. It's also a bit thin. Good records are better, but it's better than a bad copy on vinyl. Pick one up if you don't have one. Also, if someone out here is new to Sinatra and has even a little interest, this album is an excellent introduction to Frank. Incredible album.

    BTW - there's no mixing to do on "A Swingin' Affair!" - it's mono only (but the tapes are GREAT sounding mono - hopefully one day it'll be in Steve's hands so we can finally hear it right).

    MMM
     
  4. skaater

    skaater New Member

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I've been reading MMM's Sinatra posts with great interest.

    Still let me put a vote in for the series of LPs released in Britain by Alan Dell in/around 1984. The two I have (despite being digitally remastered) are superb sounding mono records - A Swingin' Affair being one of them.

    I imagine access to the master-tape was granted for these or would they have been made from a safety copy?

    cheers

    skaater
     
  5. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks for your interest in my posts.:)

    First off, I've never heard any of these, though I have seen them in stores. I can't comment on the sound, but I'm glad you like them

    As far as tapes used goes, I would GUESS they used the BRITISH master tapes, which of course are dubs of the U.S. masters. This would mean that the stereo material is represented by the old two-track stereo mixes done back in the day, not modern remixes, since I seriously doubt the U.K. has multitrack copies of the Capitol 3-tracks. Their copies would have to be dubs of the U.S. mixed stereo master. As far as the mono material material goes, "Song For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" are in their expanded 12 song editions with 4 songs unrelated to the original albums in this series, right? That would indicate that these LP's are sourced from a dub of the tampered with extra echo/eq'd 1960 tapes, prepared for these expanded issues of these titles (original U.S. catalog #'s W-1432, & W-1429). I would hope Capitol/EMI in the U.K. used copies of the ORIGINAL U.S. masters for the rest of the mono albums like "A Swingin' Affair!", not the tapered with echo/EQ 1962 copies done in the U.S. - can't say what was actually used though, never heard these issues but since you said they sound superb, perhaps they did use dubs of the correct original mono masters, not the tampered 1962 dubs. It's quite possible that U.S. Capitol never sent copies of these tampererd with tapes to the U.K. as there really was no need to do so, except for copies of the tapes for the 1960 expanded versions of "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" albums, since those were "new" issues of those titles due to the added 4 songs to each and the rearranging of the original running order of the original 8 songs from each album to make up the "new" running order of the songs for these expanded issues.

    I seriously doubt that access was granted to the U.S. tapes to prepare these U.K. LP's. In 1984 in the U.S., Sinatra Capitol product currently available then was made up of lots of abridged albums, sometimes with different titles, and still lots of material sourced from duophonic fake-stereo tapes - therefore I doubt that Capitol U.S. would have allowed Capitol/EMI U.K. access to their original master tapes to issue this material they way Alan Dell with in 1984 before they got a chance to begin reissuing these albums in their original format, which didn't begin until the 1987 with the first set of Sinatra CD's Capitol U.S. issued (and even then, they issued "In the Wee Small Hours" without "Last Night When We Were Young" calling the disc a "Special Abridged Version" :().
     
  6. skaater

    skaater New Member

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Regards A Swingin' Affair yes I think they did use the original monos.

    It doesn't have the The Lady is a Tramp add on as on the Larry Walsh CD and despite being digitally remastered sounds fine.
     
  7. Mark H

    Mark H Senior Member

    Location:
    upstate N.Y.
    MMM I read all your posts with great interest. Capitol must have taken some criticism for their omission of that track because I have a 1991 edition of "In the Wee Small Hours" re-mastered by Mr. Walsh and it does include the " Last Night When We Were Young" track.
     
  8. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks Mark for mentioning that Capitol did restore the "In the Wee Small Hours Album" to its original full length in 1991 (and for your interest in my posts). I have this disc, but I should have mentioned here that the 1991 issue is complete to avoid confusion.

    I guess I was just trying to get across the state the Sinatra Capitol catalog was pre-1987 to help explain why I seriously doubt that Capitol/EMI UK would have cut those digitally mastered 1984 LP's overseen by Alan Dell from the original U.S. masters. Then when Capitol did start issuing Frank's albums on CD in 1987, I thought it would be interesting to mention that as they started to begin issuing Frank's Capitol albums with the original album titles, cover art, and complete running orders as Frank intended, they still decided to issue "In the Wee Small Hours" without "Last Night When We Were Young" for whatever reason - maybe to save money on the song publishing, I don't know?. I wouldn't be surprised if Capitol got complaints about that 1987 edition of "Wee Small" for removing "Last Night When We Were Young" as you mentioned Mark - many people feel that's the best track on the album!

    Skaater, thanks for giving the 1984 U.K. LP of "A Swingin' Affair!" a close listen to determine that it seems that they used a copy of the proper original mono master for this issue. It wouldn't have "The Lady Is a Tramp" on it - the "bonus track" was added in the U.S. Even now, if you buy a U.K. CD of "A Swingin' Affair!", the album does not have "The Lady Is a Tramp", and the other Sinatra Capitol Concept album CD reissues in the U.K. do not have any bonus tracks either. Interestingly, "The Lady Is a Tramp" was originally going to be issued on "A Swingin' Affair!". The album's originally planned running order was quite different than we know it now, and it was originally to be issued sans "No One Ever Tells You", with "Tramp" as the first track on side 2. Then Frank decided to save "The Lady Is a Tramp" for the planned soundtrack to "Pal Joey", so "Tramp" was cut from "A Swingin' Affair!" and "No One Ever Tells You" was added. "No One Ever Tells You" was also issued as a 45rpm single - the format originally intended for this track. Some "A Swingin' Affair!" LP covers actually do exist with the original running order including "The Lady Is a Tramp" on the back. I don't think any commercially issued LP's exist with the original running order, though I guess it's possible acetates or test pressings may exist.
     
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