Sinatra Timex Shows on DVD - UPDATE: Official Release, May 19, 2017, see post #13*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by ShockControl, Dec 4, 2011.

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  1. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Is there a decent DVD collection of these shows available? Browsing Amazon, there seem to be a number of individual shows on DVD that are mastered from inferior sources. I realize that kinescopes may be all that exist, but I don't know for sure.
     
  2. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I think those are the only options.
     
  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Anything that's been released as a complete program is unofficial, hence inferior quality. I own a few of these on DVD on the Quantum Leap label, distributed by MVD Music Video Distributors. The quality is mediocre, certainly not as good as the remastered clips on authorized DVDs such as SINATRA: THE CLASSIC DUETS and VINTAGE SINATRA.

    However, they're not kinescopes. By 1959-60, when the Timex shows were broadcast, videotape technology was a reality, and kinescopes were a thing of the past.
     
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    BTW, there were four episodes in the Sinatra Timex series on ABC-TV:
    1. Oct. 19, 1959, "The Frank Sinatra Timex Show" with Bing Crosby, Dean Martin, Mitzi Gaynor (and cameo by Jimmy Durante)
    2. Dec. 13, 1959, "An Afternoon with Frank Sinatra" with Ella Fitzgerald, Peter Lawford, Juliet Prowse, The Hi-Lo's, Hermione Gingold
    3. Feb. 15, 1960, "Here's to the Ladies" with Eleanor Roosevelt, Lena Horne, Juliet Prowse, Mary Costa, Barbara Heller
    4. May 12, 1960, "Welcome Home Elvis" with Elvis Presley, Nancy Sinatra, Joey Bishop, Sammy Davis Jr. (cameo by Peter Lawford)
    For more details, see:
     
  5. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Video Gort / Paiute Warrior Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Actually, kinescopes were invaluable in preserving those Timex programs, since ABC ended up wiping the master videotapes. I haven't seen the VINTAGE SINATRA set, but if you take a look at the CLASSIC DUETS disc, all of the clips from the ABC series are transfers of kinescope films.

    - Kevin
     
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  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I was under the impression that CLASSIC DUETS and VINTAGE SINATRA were created from pre-recorded films or videotapes in the vaults of the Sinatra family. These were also the sources of the filmed Sinatra vocals used in the multimedia shows in New York and London in recent years, and in the Twyla Tharp Broadway dance musical now on tour around the US.

    If they are kinescopes, they are of an order of magnitude higher quality than those which exist of the much earlier CBS The Frank Sinatra Show series from 1950-52. (Surviving portions of the earlier series are obvious kinescopes, as the curved corners of the TV screen may be seen. Such is not the case with the 1959-60 material.)
     
  7. ky658

    ky658 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ft Myers, Florida
  8. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Thanks for the reply, but, respectfully, kinescopes were used until at least the late 1960s, at least as a backup medium.
     
  9. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Understood, but these particular (Timex) programs were pre-recorded. They were not broadcast live. (For example, the Elvis show of May 12th was recorded March 26, 1960.) Since original film/tape sources existed, why would these have been archived on inferior kinescopes (i.e. at the studio level)?

    If it's true that ALL master sources were wiped clean, then kinescope films become quite important, of course. It's been implied elsewhere that Sinatra kept his own copies. However, having just reviewed the "official" releases of some of this material, I agree the quality seems lacking. (Not quite as rough as the YouTube video linked above, and it varies between different shows.) I can't say for sure that those are not kinescopes, so I respectfully bow to expert opinions. :)
     
  10. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    While videotape started in mid-1956, kinescopes kept going well into the 1970s. I worked for a year or two for a company in North Hollywood, Image Transform, which was still doing kinescopes in the 1980s.

    As Wikipedia notes: Many episodes of programs from the 1960s survive only through kinescoped copies. The last 16 mm kinescopes of television programs ended in the late 1970s, as video tape recorders became more affordable.

    And as others have said, sometimes, the master videotape has been lost in the edifice of time, but a crummy 16mm kinescope copy still survives. In fact, I bet half of the live or tape shows from this period only exist as kines (of the few that do survive).

    I don't doubt this DVD sucks. A lot of people selling public-domain DVDs of stuff like this don't exactly spend a lotta money on mastering, nor can they get very good source material.
     
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  11. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Yeah; but this is a case of "I'll take what I can get and be damned grateful for it". :) A crappy mastering of a lousy source is still better than nothing.
     
  12. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Unfortunately Bob, exactly that happened, in a majority of cases for the period we're talking about. Kinescope film was easy to play back; videotape required very expensive rare special equipment (if I recall right, to avoid the effects of variations between heads then, headstacks were sometimes sent along with the tape if it was to be played again elsewhere). Kinescope film was relatively cheap while videotape was considered expensive and would be reused at least once before being discarded. I seem to recall one guesstimate equated cost in today's dollars at ~$1500 per tape. Also, I seem to be remembering (though I'd like to be wrong!) that depending on the system, unlike with audio tape, video tape might be noticeably worn with each pass. Surviving tapes from that time are exceptions rather than the rule, so one should probably assume that if a show survives, it's kinescope, unless one knows it is a rare survivor.

    Kinescope and related processes were upgraded over the years and would have noticeably improved between Frank's CBS show and the Timex. The sound was also usually transfered from potentially superb quality mono magnetic tape to sharply inferior mono optical of the kines. Visually, NTSC with '50s video cameras is already frustratingly poor to me, kinescope is... argh. But as PaulKTF says, I'll take it gladly. We're lucky to have that.
     
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  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    As announced at the Sinatra Family Forum:

    EAGLE ROCK ANNOUNCES THE NEXT ENTRIES IN

    THE FRANK SINATRA COLLECTION

    THE TIMEX SHOWS VOL. 1 & VOL. 2

    ~DVD AND DIGITAL FORMATS ON MAY 19, 2017~

    New York, NY-- On May 19, 2017, Eagle Rock Entertainment will release another pair of titles in The Frank Sinatra Collection on DVD and digital formats. On license from Frank Sinatra Enterprises (FSE), the definitive collection pulls together some of the finest performances on television and in concert from the greatest entertainer of the 20th century.


    [​IMG]

    The Timex Shows Vol.1
    The Frank Sinatra Timex Show / An Afternoon With Frank Sinatra

    The Frank Sinatra Collection brings together some of Frank Sinatra’s finest performances on television and in concert. This release combines his first two Timex TV shows from the late ‘50s.

    THE FRANK SINATRA TIMEX SHOW – First broadcast by ABC on October 19, 1959. This was the first of four Timex-sponsored television specials that Sinatra hosted. It’s a fun and energetic show that captures Frank Sinatra at the top of his game. Guests include Dean Martin, Mitzi Gaynor and Bing Crosby, who join forces for an opening rendition of “High Hopes” and later Jimmy Durante makes a surprise appearance.

    AN AFTERNOON WITH FRANK SINATRA – First broadcast by ABC on December 13, 1959, ‘An Afternoon With Frank Sinatra’ was the second of Sinatra’s four Timex television specials. The show includes guest appearances from Peter Lawford, Hermione Gingold, The Hi-Lo’s, Red Norvo’s jazz combo, dancer Juliet Prowse and the incomparable Ella Fitzgerald. Sinatra sings such hits as “I’ve Got The World On A String,” "I'll Never Smile Again" and duets on "Can't We Be Friends" with Ella.


    [​IMG]

    The Timex Shows Vol.2
    To The Ladies / Welcome Home Elvis

    The Frank Sinatra Collection brings together some of Frank Sinatra’s finest performances on television and in concert. This release combines his two final Timex TV shows from 1960.

    TO THE LADIES – First broadcast by ABC on February*15, 1960, ‘To The Ladies’ surrounded Frank Sinatra with a host of wonderful female performers for his third Timex-sponsored television special. It’s a mix of comedy, opera, dancing and great songs. Guests include Lena Horne, Mary Costa, Barbara Heller, Juliet Prowse and special guest star Eleanor Roosevelt.

    WELCOME HOME ELVIS – First broadcast by ABC on May 12, 1960, ‘Welcome Home Elvis’ was Frank Sinatra’s fourth and final Timex special. It marked Elvis Presley’s first TV appearance after coming home from military service. Elvis performs “Fame And Fortune” and “Stuck On You” then Presley and Sinatra join forces on great renditions of “Witchcraft” and “Love Me Tender.” Joining in the fun is Nancy Sinatra, Jr., Sammy Davis, Jr., Peter Lawford and Joey Bishop.

    FULL TRACKLISTING INFORMATION

    THE TIMEX SHOWS VOL. 1

    THE FRANK SINATRA TIMEX SHOW
    1) High Hopes (Bing Crosby/Dean Martin/Mitzi Gaynor) 2) Day In, Day Out (Frank Sinatra) 3) Together, Wherever We Go (Frank Sinatra/Bing Crosby/Dean Martin) 4) Hurricane (Mitzi Gaynor) 5) Talk To Me (Frank Sinatra/Mitzi Gaynor) 6) Cheek To Cheek (Bing Crosby/Dean Martin/Mitzi Gaynor) 7) Wrap Your Trouble In Dreams (Dean Martin 8) Medley: Good Old Songs/Down By The Old Mill Stream/The Old Gray Mare/In Shade Of The Old Apple Tree/That Old Feeling/Down The Old Ox Road/Old Rockin’ Chair/Old Devil Moon/You’re An Old Smoothie/My Old Flame/Ol’ Man River (Frank Sinatra/Bing Crosby/Dean Martin) 9) High Hopes (Frank Sinatra) 10) Medley: Just One Of Those Things/Angel Eyes/The Lady Is A Tramp (Frank Sinatra) 11) Medley: Start Each Day With A Song/Inka Dinka Doo/Baby, Won’t You Please Come Home (Frank Sinatra/Bing Crosby/Dean Martin/Mitzi Gaynor/Jimmy Durante)

    AN AFTERNOON WITH FRANK SINATRA
    1) Spend The Afternoon With Me (Frank Sinatra) 2) I’ve Got The World On A String (Frank Sinatra) 3) The Desert Is Calling (The Hi-Lo’s) 4) Comes Love (Hermione Gingold/Peter Lawford) 5) There’s A Lull In My Life (Ella Fitzgerald) 6) It’s All Right With Me (Frank Sinatra) 7) Juliet Prowse Dance Routine 8) Too Marvelous For Words (Frank Sinatra/Red Norvo Quintet) 9) Here Is That Rainy Day (Frank Sinatra/Red Norvo Quintet) 10) Just You, Just Me (Ella Fitzgerald) 11) I’ll Never Smile Again (Frank Sinatra/The Hi-Lo’s) 12) Can’t We Be Friends (Frank Sinatra/Ella Fitzgerald) 13) Puttin’ On The Ritz (Hermione Gingold/Peter Lawford/Juliet Prowse) 14) He Loves And She Loves (Ella Fitzgerald) 15) Love Walked Right In (The Hi-Lo’s) 16) Our Love Is Here To Stay (Frank Sinatra) 17) Love Is Sweeping The Country (Frank Sinatra/Hermione Gingold/Peter Lawford/Juliet Prowse/Ella Fitzgerald)

    THE TIMEX SHOWS VOL. 2

    TO THE LADIES
    1) Here’s To The Ladies (Frank Sinatra) 2) I’ve Got You Under My Skin (Frank Sinatra) 3) Ouvre Ton Coeur (Mary Costa) 4) By Strauss (Barbara Heller) 5) Ring The Bell (Lena Horne) 6) Come Cha Cha With Me (Juliet Prowse) 7) It’s A Lonesome Old Town (Frank Sinatra) 8) But Beautiful (Lena Horne) 9) From This Moment On (Lena Horne) 10) Harold Arlen Medley: As Long As I Live/It’s Only A Paper Moon/One For My Baby/Accentuate The Positive/Stormy Weather/Get Happy/Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea (Frank Sinatra/Lena Horne) 11) My Heart Stood Still (Frank Sinatra) 12) Yours Is My Heart Alone (Mary Costa) 13) Afraid Of Love (Barbara Heller) 14) My Heart Belongs To Daddy (Lena Horne) 15) My Funny Valentine (Juliet Prowse) 16) High Hopes (Eleanor Roosevelt) 17) Here’s To The Ladies (Frank Sinatra)

    WELCOME HOME ELVIS
    1) It’s Nice To Go Trav’ling (Frank Sinatra/Joey Bishop/Sammy Davis Jr/Nancy Sinatra) 2) It’s Nice To Go Trav’ling (Frank Sinatra/Joey Bishop/Sammy Davis Jr/Nancy Sinatra/Elvis Presley) 3) Witchcraft (Frank Sinatra) 4) Come On Bess (Sammy Davis Jr) 5) Oriental Dance (Leona Irwin & The Tommy Hansen Dancers) 6) Gone With The Wind (Frank Sinatra) 7) Uh Oh! (Nutty Squirrels) 8) All The Way (Sammy Davis Jr) 9) Shall We Dance (Sammy Davis Jr/Peter Lawford) 10) Fame And Fortune (Elvis Presley) 11) Stuck On You (Elvis Presley) 12) Medley: Witchcraft/Love Me Tender (Frank Sinatra/Elvis Presley) 13) Medley: Witchcraft/Love Me Tender - Reprise (Frank Sinatra/Elvis Presley) 14) You Make Me Feel So Young (Frank Sinatra/Nancy Sinatra) 15) Let’s Dance (Nancy Sinatra)
     
  14. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2017
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  15. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    I wonder if those still photos are indicative of what the video quality will be?
     
  16. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    I'm really looking forward to this. Thanks for posting!
     
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  17. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2017
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Some good info in that thread that should not have been closed. Merged and re-opened -- and thanks for sharing this news, Bob. Very cool!
     
  19. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Thank you to @MLutthans for the thread merge.
     
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  20. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Same here! :)
     
  21. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Video Gort / Paiute Warrior Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Someone asked me off-line about what the sources for the DVD are likely to be--

    I would imagine that since it's the only surviving show on tape, they'll probably release "An Afternoon With Frank Sinatra" from the video "master"-- a 1" dub from the original 2" tape (which was later junked), and that would be a welcome addition for any Sinatra fan's archive... but the rest only survive as kinescopes (of varying quality), so we'll see if they take the time and expense to re-transfer some of the films.

    As for whether the hi-fi audio for "Welcome Home Elvis" gets used anytime soon-- well, that's up to Nancy... she's one of the IP owners.

    - Kevin
     
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  22. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Thanks for the update!
     
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  23. ky658

    ky658 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Hopefully, they'll look better than this:

     
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  24. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Hopefully, we'll get a Timex watch with the set... ;)


    [​IMG]
     
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  25. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    You will, but it will be submerged in a glass of water.
     
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