SL-1200G(R) vs Ultradeck

Hi all

I'm an old-new guy on this forum, joined a few years ago but with no real contribution.

I still have a current question. I own a cheap AT-LP120 (tweaked, removed preamp). Works ok, but the motor noise/rumble I can hear when reaching a certain volume, lousy antiskate I had to completely reengineer, makes me think I'm not servin my nice old nice Cayin 500 with a decent source.

Did my research, and both the Mofi Ultradeck and Technics 1200G(R) (the new models, not the discontinued series) look very appealing to me. The issue is that there is no place I can listen to those next to where I leave (and I can't even dream of being able to compare).

Had anyone the opportunity to hear both with similar setup ? I'd be glad to hear any feedback.

Thnaks a lot

 

I'd much rather have the Technics. Why get a belt drive when an extremely well executed direct drive is available at the same price? From what I've seen both decks are well-liked. I think there are plenty of advantages to DD Technics.

 

I've got a GR (newly acquired). It's an easy transition from the LP120 - the headshells will fit and adjustments to VTF and VTA are made the same way. It's just a much better built TT.

 

One will always play on pitch, the other will on occasion.

 

Not disagreeing here, just playing devils advocate. I think you could argue that the MoFi has a superior tonearm, which could be reason enough for certain preferences.

*Maybe I’m totally wrong, but I think the arm is a big sell point for the MoFi.

 

Also worth noticing that while SL1200GR and MoFi Ultradeck are about in the same price range, the SL1200G is twice the price.

 

Even superior to the G magnesium arm?

 

Just get one of these...

Vintage Turntables For Sale - AR Turntable Vinyl Nirvana Acoustic Research Merrill Thorens TD 160 For Sale

 

I'm not in the US, and for now I am only considering the ones I listed, thanks

 

You're probably right, this is why I include the 1200G as a "lets get crazy" option. I can do it but I will only if ....

 

But you don't know which?

 

Where do you guys come up with this malarkey that belt drives can't keep pitch? That can be the case with some belt-drives and almost all cheap ones, but by no means is it a universal fact.

 

I'm not sure about that one. Like you said, the 1200G is double the price of the UltraDeck/1200GR.

I think comparing the 1200GR and the UltraDeck (or any deck at the $2000 price point) you have a few compromises that still need to be made. What's interesting comparing these two is the design philosophies are very different, and most people end up very happy with either of them.

Both have aluminum arms with gimbal bearings, isolation feet, plenty of isolation features and weigh in the mid 20lbs (mofi - 23, GR - 25)

UltraDecks choices: 10 arm with Cardas wiring, delrin platter (6.8lbs) with manual change pulley belt-drive, multi-level aluminum/MDF bonded plinth, inverted steel bearing. To me this design is heavily focused on keeping things very simple and using the highest quality materials for key components in it's price point.
The UltraDeck designer also is known for decks that normally cost at least 10X as much as the UltraDeck, which says something about MoFi's investment to this product line's quality.

1200GR choices: 9-1/16th S-shaped arm with silver wiring (I think?), aluminum platter with underside dampening (5.5lbs), coreless direct drive motor, aluminum cast/rubber two layer construction. The design philosophy seems to be built around the coreless motor, and is an engineering marvel.
The 1200GR leans on the design of a table more than twice it's price, and has decades of engineering experience. A local dealer told me that if any other manufacturer tried to build the GR, it would cost that likely 1.5-2x as much to produce just because they wouldn't have the patents, historic knowledge, partners, distributors etc. to hit the same price point.

Those are the key points as I understand it. Still some trade offs on both sides. But it really feels like no one is less than 100% satisfied with either option.

 

And a good one like the MoFi with an AC synchronous motor and a precision belt driving the outside of a precision platter should have very low wow and flutter, often just dependent on the quality of the belt and bearings. The biggest problem with quality vinyl playback these days is off-center records, those wavering pitch effects are much more a problem than any perceived belt drive issues, and won't be any better with even the most tightly controlled direct drive system.

One nice thing about a quality AC synchronous belt drive deck like the MoFi (or my Clearaudio) that isn't often discussed is the relative simplicity of the drive, it's typically all analog, usually just AC power from the wall, sometimes a step down transformer which also provides a little power conditioning. The direct drive system with quartz lock like the Technics has high frequency digital circuits to control the speed using negative feedback, and switching power supplies on top of that, so there's always a chance for extra RFI incursion on the music. But it does assure you will have a very accurate speed at all times, and the Technics does provide formidable competition in that $1500-$2000 price range now, that's for sure.

 

Is there any way to adjust the speed on the mofi if its not 100% spot on from factory? What do you do if the speed drifts over time? ?

 

This is a good question I actually hadn't thought about. My initial guess would be a fresh belt, or possibly experiment with some different sized belts. Or maybe they have an accessible screw for minor adjustments. I also believe I recall reading that it would work with the VPI speed control - but that's also entering a whole new price point.

 

Speed drift is only an issue with belt-drives that use cheap motors IME. My table allows for pitch adjustment but I never have to use it because the motor and its controller keep the speed in check.

 

It should work with the Music Hall controllers as well.

 

An AC synchronous motor only runs one speed for a given power frequency. Where does the idea of speed drift come from?

 

Being able to adjust speed was a major consideration for the TT I ended up buying (Oracle Paris MkV). So far I've yet needed to adjust it.

 

Well Rega tables run fast, but that is probably because some part of them is machined out of spec or the factory provided belt is the wrong thickness. I would say that most Dual turntables with AC motors offer some degree of speed and pitch adjustment.

 

The type of motor in an ordinary belt drive turntable on the market today (like Rega) runs at a speed that is fixed by the layout of the motor and the frequency of the power fed to it. There is nothing that can drift. To change the speed of a synchronous motor you would have to change the frequency of the AC power fed to it. It can’t just drift. It isn’t within the capability of the motor technology.

 

This is so true in my experience. I own a 1200 mk5, a music hall belt drive (great table) and a td124 idler.

All issues I’ve had with pitch accross all three were related to off center and/or too large spindle holes.

I’m in the camp that the OP would be happy with either and the cartridge plans would play into bigger consideration for me. I like being able to swap carts easily and to me that’s the biggest difference here.

 

The motor might not drift, but the speed can be off. For instance if you buy an aftermarket belt and it is a different width than original belt then you would need some means of adjusting the speed to compensate. Dual turntables do this via a tapered pulley. My point is that even with a motor of fixed speed, the actual speed of the platter can be off due to circumstances. The tolerances of the machining of the pulley and platter can only be so good. Some method of adjusting the speed is always good. The Technics doesn't need a means of adjustment because it is governed an oscillator, which is about as accurate as you can get. Furthermore it is a servo setup so rotational speed is constantly monitored and adjusted.

 

You are replying to me and yet talking about a totally different issue. Look at posts 15 and 17. They are talking about speed drifting. I am saying it’s impossible.