Slight Rant- No More NOS Tubes

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Jun 9, 2018.

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  1. You have to understand one thing about me, and I really say it in a good way and mood, honest! I'm a disabled person,had an accident, not really, I fainted, I colapsed,fell straight to the floor up front and my both shoulders got all the hit and I'm a big guy. I can do most of my everyday's stuff by myself but that's it, I'm retired, I get a pension and I'm only 44. I get bored very often! So if I'm bored on a Sunday afternoon and the idea of some tube rolling/messing around pops upmy head, I just do it and say my boredom goodbye. I sometimes get unexpected results like the combination of one new production Gold Lion 12AX7 (which as a pair sound dull and treble shyon my Phono preamp), one NOS Hitachi 12AX7 (which as a pair sound bright on my Phono preamp) and a RFT 12AU7 used as a buffer tube on a cathode follower configuration. From two pairs of tubes I had no itention to use on my current EAR 834 "clone" Phono preamp I got a killer combination.
     
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  2. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I have tried many brands of new small signal tubes - Gold Lion, Psvane, JJ, Genalex and Sovtek. The Tung Sols sounded best to me.
    I recently heard a really nice (amazing actually) sounding McIntosh system that used Shauguang tubes and I may give them a try.
     
    Kiko1974 likes this.
  3. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    I'm not certain if you understood what I meant above. I really like the Tung-Sols too. But if you use too many Tung-Sols all-together, the result can be too much of a good thing. Therefore, adding some other tubes with complementary colorations can really help at times.
     
  4. Why don't you try TJ Full Music 12AX7? I have both matched in a box 12AX7 Psvane and a pair of new production Gold Lion 12AX7 and I can swear to you that the TJ Full Music 12AX7 TROUNCES both Gold Lions and Psvane 'though neither of both are bad.
     
  5. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    he's very busy - my tubes have been on hold for ~ 3 weeks until he's ready to process my order.
     
  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    in the mean time ordered some NOS RCA clear top and Mazda Radio of France 12AU7s. Am loving the richness, clean sound and detail!
     
  7. FLEMKE

    FLEMKE Senior Member

    Location:
    CROOK COUNTY IL
    I know he can take some time to ship. He also cleans/polishes the pins and tests the heck out of them.
    Tim
     
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  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    that is some service! looking forward to hering the siemens tubes, a brand i have never heard.
     
  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's worth noting all those Japanese and Chinese tubes you like so much are pretty bright and forward-sounding. We discussed this before so I know the type of sound you're after. Because I prefer a laid-back warm sound, the TJ FullMusic are probably leaning in the opposite direction I'd want to take my sound so they wouldn't be the best for my tastes. European and American tubes always sounded worlds better to my ears.
     
    Kiko1974 likes this.
  10. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Give me a nice sturdy NOS RCA and I am happy.
     
  11. mreeter

    mreeter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I thought you said "No more NOS Tubes!" :D
     
  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    slight over reaction :)
     
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  13. mreeter

    mreeter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I know, tubes are soo damned addictive:help:
     
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  14. BrentB

    BrentB Urban Angler

    Location:
    Midwestern US
    I have had MUCH better luck buying old lots of tubes that are "pulls" than buying NOS. If the tube came from say an old organ, then they were probably top graded before installation. Some organs may have not been used a lot and therefore hours may be low. This is especially true with preamp tubes. I have many 12ax7 and 12au7 of this that are pulls and have tested as new and perform as new.
    My Silvertone amp uses 4-6v6gt's and they are all pulls from old equiptment from the 50's. I have had them tested and they still test strong. The tech that does my testing says that often old used tubes have stood the test of time will last a LONG time. Especially if the tube has been in use for 40-50 years and STILL tests near new.
     
  15. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    where do you get them from?
     
  16. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Pulls, NOS, it's a crap shoot, especially at this point with 40 and 50 year old tubes that test good and are low noise getting more and more scarce. Plus often with old, used tubes, noise levels are much higher than with new tubes. There's no easy, universal solution here. Plus unless you're continually testing your pulls, how do you know when their sound quality is declining?

    Sometimes things one doesn't expect, happen. I recently pulled out some long used Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s and Sylvania Black Plate 12ax7s in various audio gear in replace them with tubes that aren't among the most sought after, legendary holy grail type tubes -- in the former case some '80s army surplus Sylvania 6922 I've had lying around for 15 years or more that I bought as spares when they were dirt cheap so those were NOS, and in the latter case some used pulls (some short plate Westinghouse 12ax7). In each case the lower levels of noise and the better frequency extension at both extremes (especially the bass) led to much better sound: more open, continuous seeming soundstage; much greater low level detail; greater dynamic sense of surprise (all things I typically associate with lower noise).

    I remember in the old days thinking those Sylvania 6922 were kind of dark and veiled sounding, and that the Westinghouse tubes couldn't match the dynamic qualities of the Sylvania black plates....but at this point, with those tubes getting long in the tooth (and who knows when they were last tested relative to the hours of use I put on them, and with the palpably lower levels of noise with the new tubes or tubes with much less use on them, the sound is better. I don't know if the 50 year old tubes I pulled out of use still test great. They did when I started using 'em, but I've used 'em now for years. But I do know that it seems that over the years of my use of them, their ability to perform in circuit has slipped.
     
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  17. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    By destroying old tube organs that will never be made again...
     
  18. I don't think the NOS Matsushita 12AX7 I own, the NOS Hit Ray 12AX7 I have or the Hitachi 7025 I own are bright sounding, right the opposite, some like the Matsushitas and the Hitachi 7025 are a bit treble shy. The sound of the tube depends on the piece of equipment you put them in.
    Have you ACTUALLY heardd a pair of TJ Full Music 12AX7 like on a Phono preamp or a line level preamp? Can you describe their sound based on your OWN opinion?
     
  19. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Not addressed to me, but I should have a set of 4 this week to try in the input stage of my Conrad Johnson Premier 15 phono preamp. Should be interesting, they will be going up against the current set like the one below ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I don't know of anyone who is offering true NOS Tele (ribbed or smooth- i used the ribbed in my Lamm ML2 amps) 12AX7. Tube Depot is advertising some for $500 a pop without exactly saying what they are. I have been buying from reputable vendors for years, but testing and playing a tube are in my estimation, two different things. I had an allegedly NOS pair of ribbed plate Tele 12ax7 start to crackle about a month after I began running them; they replaced an older pair that were still performing, but seemed to have lost their high frequencies.
    The 12ax7 is probably one of the most common audiophile tubes, thus the supply of these is tapped out.
    Tubemonger (I like those guys) had some old never used Tungsrams with welded plates, circa 1961-62 that I am running now while awaiting a couple pairs of Tele ribbed plates (somehow the ribbed plate isn't quite as rich as the smooth plate and works better in the Lamm amp-- it needs a little bite). I may also try some others-- the Tungsrams aren't fully burned in and sound a little too chubby- not svelte enough in my amps in my system. Supposedly the Psvane is a decent new production tube and for the price, it is probably worth trying.
    My tube habits are high priced, unfortunately: KT-66, 6H30, and various 12a_7 types. I used to roll 6922/6dj8s but have no equipment using that tube now. I probably have a couple LP boxes full of tubes that should be tested, i suspect most of them are junk but who knows.
     
  21. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    The quality of some of the Russian and Chinese tubes has really improved a lot in recent years. Many of these are cheap to roll, and yet can sound great (especially when you figure out which tubes to use with each other to achieve the sound that you want). So you might want to try dipping a toe into the new tube market again.
     
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  22. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    it's worth the effort if only to confirm that they don't sound as good.
    despite my initial enthusiasm for the NP tung sols and over reaction to a failed NOS tube, I have yet to hear any NP tubes that sound better than decent NOS variety.
    and it doesn't have to be that expensive either if you pick wisely.
     
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  23. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Reread my post. I said "probably" and "in the direction *I* would want to take". Enjoy those tubes but every Japanese and Chinese preamp tube I've tried sounded bright and forward which isn't what I want. No, I haven't tried all tubes in existence but also can recognize patterns and have always had terrific success when using European and American tubes of specific types so I stick with what has worked for me. We all have our own tastes.
     
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  24. I won't say you are wrong, but you haven't heard the exact Japanase tubes I own,well maybe you have heard the Matsushita 12AX7/12AU7 as they are quite popular, and I think some here agree that they are not agressive or have too much treble.
    Despite all this, keep in mind that all the units on my set up I bought them because they are on the soft side. B&W 601 first series from 1996 were often critized as being detailed but a bit too soft and these are (and will be until they're gone,it was love at first sight, a long 22 year love relationship) my main speakers, and the same happens with the B&W CC6 center channel from the same year up to the point that despite not liking equalization and gimmicks I have the center channel equalized with treble set higher (my Pioneer SC LX-76 can equalize channels independently) than normal from 10 Khz on, otherwise voices sound dull. And the same can be said for the aforementioned Pioneer SC LX-76 from 2012. I didn't get it because its features, a friend who works on the Hi Fi department on a department store called me to come and listen the new receiver they just got. I told him that if it wasn't a Marantz I was bothering, but he said to get my @$$ right there with some of my favourite and reference recordings and listen to this new Pioneer. To summ up, it's STRANGE that a top of the line receiver is on stock on a shop or department store in Spain, this one was and I left with one under my arm. All my equipment is rather soft/neutral sounding, even the new cart I've been using for the last three months, an Audio Technica VM540ML seem to have corrected the bright sound they had in the past as it sounds quite linear and neutral. Maybe my Japanese tubes help to give a little, or not so little, sparkle to an already soft sounding set up.
     
  25. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Exactly. It's all about system-matching. If you have "soft" or too warm-sounding gear, these are the tubes that'll help. If your gear is already on the bright side, it'd make things sound. Too much so.

    Glad you've found what works for you. :righton:
     
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