So I bought an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge.....

I have absolutely no excuse for not jumping back into this thread and I'm a little embarrassed that as the TS I have not done so. Please accept my apologies!

My experience with the 2M Black was a positive one and I enjoyed it for the 2 years I owned it. I had it mounted on a Nottingham Analogue Horizon SE w/RB250 tonearm. I never encountered any issues although tracking on some records with even the slightest amount of warp caused it to affect sound with a rumble or feedback-like noise. I don't really know how to describe it properly. I suspected this could be caused by the very low profile of the cartridge. I thought the midrange was excellent, although it's no Grado wood body like the Sonata, which to me is better in that regard. Upper end extension was better than the Grado however, which have a tendency to roll-off slightly. The bass was fine for me with perhaps slightly more oomph.

I sold the Nottingham TT and included the 2M Black in this transaction. I thought about getting another 2M Black, but I was able to get a really nice deal on a Dynavector DV20x2L. I had never owned a Dynavector before and heard good things about the DV20x2L, so I went for it. It took a lot longer to break in than the 2M Black, but at the end of the day I can say I slightly prefer it. They are both very nice cartridges.

 

I just purchased and installed the 2m Black on my ProJect Debut Carbon Esprit. I decided on this move after reading this forum, speaking directly to Ortofon USA (Both very helpful) and based on everyone's opinion and advice I upgraded from the 2m Blue.

Right out of the box I could tell the difference in two areas. I heard more detail in the music and the soundstage was more defined. I also heard more of the imperfections of both the record and the pressing. More clips and pops on older vinyl... so as some suggested I must use the Okki Nokki more often and perhaps replace some older examples of my records. I realize the stylus must break in so I'll start my 40 hours of burn in tonight.....

 

Yes, I've had one for about a year. It is noisy in the groove . . . More so than the blue (which is what I upgraded from). However, it has good detail retrieval (of not so much in the way of "air" and TREMENDOUS bass. It's a full bodied sound. My point of comparison is the blue, a Linn Karma (using now) and a Benz Micro Glider (which I have not had since my daughter snapped the cantalever off it a while back).

Judd

 

This question may be better as a new thread, but here goes since this thread already has all the 2M Black attention:
Do any of you use the 2M Black on mono albums? Quite a few of my records, both old and new, are mono pressings, and I don't know what to expect from the 2M Black given the (usually) somewhat wider grooves on mono pressings. Should that Shibata and its greater contact area for stereo pressings translate well enough to mono, or will it potentially carve into the grooves and put more wear on mono pressings than the stereo pressings for which it's engineered?

I've been using the Ortofon Silver that came with my Pro-ject Carbon 3 turntable; the elliptical stylus for that cartridge must function closely enough to a mono-type spherical stylus because the Silver has given good to really good sound on my mono pressings (and without nearly so much inner groove distortion as it demonstrates on some stereo pressings).

Now the Silver is worn out and the cartridge took a slight hit the other day against the platter that resulted in increased volume, noticeable right channel distortion during playback, and a close-range right channel hiss (veeery faint left channel hiss) that persists in the speakers even when the stylus is not in contact with a surface (tested to make sure it wasn't some spontaneous, ironically-timed grounding/feedback issue elsewhere in the system). Not wanting to invest in another Silver stylus to find out whether the cartridge body's contents were affected, I decided it's time to move up the chain and go for the 2M Black. Yes, moving towards a better cartridge has me thinking it's also time for a turntable that can accept more than one tonearm and thus offer simultaneous mono/stereo cartridges, but at the moment that's not reali$tic for me. Thanks for your input!

 

I'd guess that it would prove to be problematic. The Bronze is my favorite cartridge in the 2m series. For your use, the Blue would be an upgrade stereo replacement cartridge, if the Bronze is out of budget. You can just engage a mono switch or you can use Y cables at the phono input if you really want the best mono signal from a stereo cartridge. I just leave things the way they are as I don't have enough mono records nor the patience to be constantly swapping leads. A switch I could probably handle . Ortofon also offers a 2m Mono stylus, which will fit your cartridge body, and which has a spherical stylus if you really want that.
-Bill

 

I posted over a month ago when I first installed my 2M Black so here are a few observations in a months constant usage.

1) The cartridge reveals every detail I can hear with my 54 year old ears. On classical and jazz recordings the bass is fantastic, the highs are clear and undistorted. Cymbals sound present in front of you without that "ssssss" distortion;

2) on brand new or mint used albums, the sound is fantastic, however, as some suggest, and I concur, this stylus picks up EVERY pop, click, tick and static on older albums. Surface noise is present regardless of how many cleanings, zerostat applications or other "anti-static" trick you try. In other words, this cart accentuated every negative about vinyl those digital true believers denigrate vinyl for.

Basically be careful of what condition your albums are being played. As a music fan and not a "collector" for investment I would rather buy a very good reissue of a classic album that has no surface noise than listen to an original first pressing with static pops and ticks. I have to replace about five of my favorite and well played albums now because of its "accuracy" This 2M cartridge will pick up surface noise and may therefore disappoint you on your older records. It is doing that to mine.

Steve

 

Most of the "silent" carts out there are just "rolled-off" carts... not good I'll take some noise with a full frequency range output, thank you

 

Totally 100% agree with you...but to each his own....I love my 2M black

 

Just giving a shout out to the forgotten Ortofon. The Music hall Mojo. It's just be a rebadged Ortofon 540 MK II. Once the top line (?) MM cart from Ortofon before the 2M series appeared and the Black dethroned it. I have been told (correct if wrong) that it has the same sonic signature of the Black albeit less detailed (and more forgiving), yet closer that the Bronze.
At $500 retail, it is only slightly more than the Bronze. Deals can be had though as it's kind of a sleeper cart.
Just throwin' it out there...

 

I do, plays fine.

If you do end up buying one, get the Shibata adjusted correctly. I just found a few weeks ago after running VTA @ about 90 degrees parallel top of cart to platter, then sometimes tail down, it smokes with tail slightly up.

Set VTF/azimuth first. Then used a jewelers loupe to initially set SRA to about 92 degrees, (need to validate a starting point) then finished by ear. The shibata is really a PITA because you think it's adjusted right, but it's still not. One of the toughest profiles I've ever had to adjust, but once it's in, there's none of that brightness and surface noise that seems to be associated with this cart. Other profiles are much easier and forgiving to adjust, and have a wider area where they lock in.

Stylus Shape Information | Soundsmith

 

I just received my mint Born To Run Japanese 1975 Pressing. Oh my god what a sound on the 2M Black. No surface noise, no pops, ticks or static...but the range is amazing. This is what I expected to hear with the 2M. So as I stated in my previous post, I will invest in clean reissues or mint Japanese or German pressings because the ability of this cartridge is fully realized on good clean vinyl! Based on what you said I may just have to live with my older imperfections unless or until they become unbearable.
Steve

 

It's quite a bit more complicated and is a combination/interaction between frequency response, loading, reflected impedance, stylus profile shape, groove width, phono-stage gain/headroom, cartridge setup and probably several other factors. For instance the Zyx and Dynavector are some of the quietest cartridges I've heard including the XV-1S and UNIVERSE and those two have very extended frequency response. Same with my old Zyx Bloom. Contrast this to the Sound-Smith cartridges I've heard regardless if they used elliptical or line-contact they picked up more noise than the Zyx or Dynavectors, but the Sound-Smith wasn't any more or less extended high end. My current cartridge is a bit more tonally like the vintage Koetsus and is also pretty revealing of noise, while at the same time having a more relaxed treble.

 

Thanks sincerely for the fast feedback, guys.

My favorite "modern" ref for mono playback is a bit of a ruse: The Beatles in Mono sounds great on the Ortofon Silver (rest of the system is decent enough to call that cartridge, the Pro-Ject Carbon 3 and the interconnects the weak link(s) ). However, this is really a stereo pressing with the same track on both inner and outer grooves, and the grooves are modern-width micro grooves. The Ortofon 2M Mono "SE" (Special Edition) that was promoted for use with this box set, and which costs twice what the box set itself runs, seems to have the exact same specs as the Ortofon 2M Black other than those electrical aspects associated with a mono cartridge; the styli are the same according to the website! Hear that, the Ortofon 2M Mono SE stylus should function no different than the 2M black; the 2M Mono SE is veeery different from the standard 2M Mono stylus. Additionally, there is very slim write up on the 2M Mono SE via the Ortofon website for a MM cartridge of its price; it is the only 2M cartridge absent from the comparative docs/pdf's Ortofon supplies. I am surprised by this because it seems it's not a true Mono cart, but rather one for only modern Mono pressings with narrower stereo cut grooves. If it truly does take this cartridge to extract the most from The Beatles in Mono, surely that box set isn't quite the deal it may seem on the surface (or in the grooves, ba doom boom bshshsh). No matter to me. None of my original (or second/third, Japan) pressings of those albums are still fresh enough to compete sonically with the Mono 2014 represses, so if the 2M silver made the 2014 mono's sound great on my system, I'm betting a flagship cartridge with the same (nude Shibata) stylus as the cartridge that was seemingly marketed with this very box set in mind will work just fine. I'll just have to see on the older true Mono albums. Some of those do have plenty of groove grit and/or surface wear. However, moderate surface noise never bothers me. Speakers on an iPhone or inexpensive earbuds on the other hand...

The Soundsmith link is interesting, especially the postulation of a fine line type stylus extracting "pristine" sound from a record worn down by a conventional cheap stylus. Turns out I have a copy of Born to Run Japanese 1975 press on which I can test this idea. Record is free of grit and scratches according to spherical/elliptical styli, but plays muted/quiet all the way through. When I got it, it was a well-cared for record, but even more well-used! I don't expect much, but now I'm surely curious whether a better stylus May extract anything more from those grizzled ole grooves.

The idea of the 2M black being difficult to adjust properly does worry me some. And what happens with such a demanding stylus if/when you DO manage to set SRA reasonably well, but then change from a 120g disc to a 200g disc? Or to the convex side of a disc with bad manufacturing dish warp? Hmmm...

 

My pristine copy of the 1975 Japanese Born to Run sounds amazing with the 2M Black!

 

I disagree with this. My Linn Karma and Linn Arkiv B pick up even MORE detail than my 2M black (as they should), and yet run more silently in the groove. I believe picking up clicks and pops has much more to do with how a particular stylus sits in the groove, and does NOT equate with its ability to retrieve detail. The absolute worst cart I ever had for groove noise was a Grado wood platinum. This was a $300 MM - and nobody would accuse it of being a detail star. I do not believe one had much to do with the other.

Judd

 

You bring us a good point. I would imagine that the ability to pick up every little detail would include the bad detail as well as the good.

Perhaps, how a stylus sits in the groove, would depend on it's ability to pick up detail.

If a stylus is not properly adjusted, I imagine that it could be sitting in the groove incorrectly and not be in the best position to pick up the detail's, but that would not rule out being in the incorrect position and that might result in it picking up more noise than detail.

So, there is a lot of weight behind your thinking.

 

Hard to discuss this subject because, in my experience, HUGE variations can occur depending on how a cart is mounted and adjusted... since we're all doing that independently it's really impossible to know if our separate experiences can be compared at all. Another huge factor is the phono stage...

So my experience is that most carts with less noise are also carts with narrower "real" frequency response (mind you I'm not talking about detail, but actually the tonal balance of the cart and its frequency extension), but maybe there is no way to compare my experience with anyone else's and those other experiences in this "area" are just as valid as mine, I have to just accept them

 

I just posted this on another thread:

I just upgraded from a VPI Scout which had the 2M Black to a Prime which now runs a Quintet Black. I loved the 2M Black but it is unforgiving.

Not sure how much of a difference the Turntable made but the sound is now:
- More lush and sweet with a great mid-range, smoother/subdued highs and boosted low-end compared to bright/harsher highs with a sub-par mid-range and low-end.
- Wider sound-stage and more "airy"; less clinical
- I also notice a significant reduction in s/n. Records I'd graded VG+ previously are now playing VG++ or better.

 

I agree that the 2M range plays all the noise on the lp, but as I treat a wash & vac record cleaning machine as a first component for second hand purchases, I get incredibly detailed sound from my records. I started with a red and thought it comparable with my OM20, and have upgraded twice since then, but think I cannot really afford the black in the short term. The rhino reissues that our host is often involved in need no advance clean, and are sounding superb. At some point I will replace my OM d 25 m mono cart with the 2m mono, whilst loving the sound of it, there is likelihood of an upgrade there.

 

Having owned the Black for awhile, I can say that if you are looking for a very similar sonic signature, but slightly more laid back and forgiving, I would highly recommend the Nag MP500. More alike than different, but I enjoy it more for longer periods and while still ultra detailed, it is a tad less harsh with less than pristine vinyl. I swap between them frequently, though my Blackbird will go back into the rotation soon. I've been trying to live with the onboard MM input on the Nova150, but do miss my MC.

 

Wow, I'd been pissed. Those guards are tricky until you get the hang of them; however, instead of putting them on I just pulled the TT cover down over the table.

 

Thanks I was indeed very pissed.

Whenever I buy a new stylus now I carefully remove the stylus guard and place it very carefully in the bin!!

I do exactly as you, just use the dust cover when not spinning records.

 

What is that difference that you prefer over the black? I ask because I am researching carts for my TT.

Thanks...

 

I am starting to feel this way myself. Mo' money.

 

So I'm looking at getting an upgrade, currently I have a mint untweaked Technics SL-1200MK5 with AT120E, had it now for about 8 years, I have around £500 burning a hole in my pocket, would this be a wise move or are there bigger/better bang for buck upgrades