So when will the CCR SACDs be out?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KeithH, Aug 24, 2002.

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  1. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now Thread Starter

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Has a release data been set for the CCR SACDs been set yet? Is there a delay due to the pressing of all the Stones hybrids? Finally, what will be the HSRP (Hoffman Suggested Retail Price ;) ) be for the CCR SACDs? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Not a clue. Very soon, but check the Acoustic Sounds website. Click on the link on my homepage.

    The Stones production threw everything off. There is only ONE SACD production line at Sonopress, and they can only produce 5,000 discs a day max!
     
  3. SteveSDCA

    SteveSDCA Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego
    That's pretty crazy. I wonder how many copies the Stones' SACD's will sell.
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now Thread Starter

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Steve Hoffman, thanks for the information. Much appreciated.
     
  5. bmoura

    bmoura Senior Member

    Location:
    Redwood City, CA
    Actually the Sonopress plant upgraded their initial Hybrid SACD pressing line's capacity to 12,000+ discs/day. But there's still a capacity crunch at this point.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The head of Audio Fidelity was just at Sonopress a few days ago; 5,000 units max a day they said.
     
  7. bmoura

    bmoura Senior Member

    Location:
    Redwood City, CA
    Really? Hmm, that's not what I've been told by Sonopress.
     
  8. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    I hate to be sacrilegious here and will stipulate at the outset that Steve's work is terrific. However, I'd be interested in others' comments on this issue. With the successful mass release of an immaculately remastered and repackaged Stones collection on CD with list prices of $18.99 per disc and street prices significantly less than that, do you think that the powers that be will rethink the $30 price to be charged for the CCR SACDs, particularly because they probably won't be available discounted at every Best Buy? Allen Klein has not been widely acclaimed for his philanthropic attitude to the music business; moreover, I suspect that the Stones are getting a significantly higher licensing and royalty fee structure than CCR. Nevertheless, I suspect that Klein is still making a pretty good profit on the Stones stuff. I know no one will be forced to buy the CCR reissues, but, seeing how ABKCO has actually gone and done it, doesn't thirty bucks a pop for Cosmo's Factory border on gouging?
     
  9. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    To be fair, I just checked and the CCRs are preselling for $25, not $30, but, still........
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Well, keep in mind ABKCO can charge less because 1) they own the material, 2) they will sell a lot more copies than the CCR discs. Unfortunately, I doubt it would be cost effective for Acoustic Sounds (?) to retail the CCR discs at $13 a pop.
     
  11. sjc

    sjc New Member

    Location:
    Stamford, CT
    I don't know if the description "immaculately remastered and repackaged" really applies to the Stones titles yet based on the early reviews, especially with regard to the packaging. The stuff that Steve does is also not really "mainstream" in the same sense that the Stones titles are. An average "joe" is not going to bother with searching out Steve's version of the CCR cds. He will most likely go to his closest FYE or Circuit City or Best Buy and get whatever is sitting in the rack. As Steve's titles are going to be much lower volume and appeal to a different audience. ... Just my 2 cents.... steve c
     
  12. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    "I don't know if the description "immaculately remastered and repackaged" really applies to the Stones titles yet based on the early reviews, especially with regard to the packaging."

    Wait 'til you get them and see them (and hear them), my skeptical friend. You'll see!

    As to your point about the more selective audience for the CCR reissues, wouldn't that mitigate more toward lower prices? My your reasoning, concert tickets for, say the reformed Styx should be five times what the Stones are getting this fall! Jeez, last time I checked, those CCR albums are about 32 minutes long each.
     
  13. sjc

    sjc New Member

    Location:
    Stamford, CT
    Ok, I am going to hunt for absent minded Best Buy's today at lunch!

    Anyway, to clarify my point a bit. The CCR titles, when released by a smaller company, such as Analogue Productions, are not going to be mass distributed. Price is not really going to change this fact. Distribution in the majority of music stores right now is heavily controlled by the majors (as Mofi in it's previous incarnation found out.)

    Ok, with that limited distribution, demand will be foccused among typs like us board members, and other audiophiles who see the adds in high end Audio magazines placed between reviews of "bargain" $1,500 40 watt integrated amps and $500 audio interconnects. A $30 cd is not going to seem out of place especially in the context of the titles that usually get advertised in these magazines.

    With this audience, $30 will probably result in a decent profit for the distributors and sellers (who exist by selling at lower volumes to a smaller audience.) I also suspect that the sales of the actual CD's will be brisk enough to justify this project.

    Now if these Steve CCR's were sitting in the bins of Best Buy a couple of aisles away from the Stones titles, then $30 a cd would be commercial suicide. The stores won't sell enough to justify the space on the sales floor.

    Ok enough. Hope that fleshes out my argument a bit better... steve c
     
  14. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    I probably was less than clear myself. My point is, as ABKCO has now demonstrated, the swill that's available at Best Buy need not be the standard. The Stones stuff is priced the same as the old releases and is a quantum leap forward. ABKCO has shown that high quality SACD/CD hybrid remasters CAN be mass produced and mass marketed, so they don't have to sell for a premium. With that marketplace reality, the best shouldn't cost 25 bucks a pop and only be available by mail order.

    I respectfully submit that, if the majors gave us quality like the Stones stuff, they wouldn't have to worry about passing legislation to penalize Internet music and CD burners. If EMI put out quality remasters of each Beatles album, it wouldn't have to screechingly-remastered stuff like One to get consumers' attention. People will pay for quality if it's offered to them. This Joe-Sixpack-With-His-Boombox pandering that I keep reading about is a bunch of bull. How amazing is it that Allen B. Klein, Mr. rip off the Stones, Mr. break up Apple, Mr. sit on the Spector and Cameo-Parkway catalogues, is the one who has proven this to us?

    I think they a call this thinking outside of the box.
     
  15. Beagle

    Beagle Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Keep in mind that ABKCO are marketing these as remastered CD's with a bonus SACD layer. They are not marketing them as SACD's per se. So it's sort of a pilot project. If they sell in large quantities, more companies will follow suit with hybrid remasters, because they'll think a market has been established.

    If more companies begin releasing re-issues and current titles in hybrid format at regular prices (that sound great!), then yes, some other audiophile labels will have to price theirs more competitively, but until then, SACD is still for a niche audiophile market. And the CCR SACD's are currently priced competitively.
     
  16. sjc

    sjc New Member

    Location:
    Stamford, CT
    Well I failed at Best Buy... I will have to wait till tomorrow to seek these things out.

    I get your point. I guess I have slightly different thoughts. Indulge me on this....

    In the early days of cd's there was often rushed production and poor use of tapes. Out of this there emerged a market for Gold Premium Cds such as DCC and MO FI. You knew if you paid some money, you would get a decent sounding disc (way better than the mass version with better packaging and presentation.)

    Right about the time both labels went under, there became less of a need. Sometimes the major label remasters sounded as good (better mastering and tape selection,) if not better than the golds and packaging improved, (no more generic budget backs and fronts ala MCA and Sony.)

    In the last couple of years however, the majors have seem to have embraced remastering that involves removing hiss, increasing volume, and making discs sound more modern. I don't mean to make this sound condescending to the "unwashed masses" There is a reason for this. People like to listen to music in their cars and on the go, where sound quality and dynamic range have less of an impact. In fact, in the car environment, dynamic range is a negative feature. Also, quite frankly many people don't like hiss and a limited top end is a worthy trade off.

    I think this might mean there is hope for the re emergence of DCC and Mofi type companies who cater to the more fanatical listener and as a trade off we will pay a bit more.

    Then again maybe I am wrong and these Stones titles will signal a return to good mastering at regular prices. The sacd dual layer option does potentially give the labels the ability to have it both ways. ... This is an interesting time for the music business in general... steve c
     
  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    You need to realize a few things:

    1) ABKCO owns everything. They own the recordings, and they own most of the publishing. They don't have to pay anyone else to release this stuff. The majority of money made goes right to them.

    2) Analog Productions (or whoever) DOESN'T own the material in question (CCR). They have to PAY for it. In addition, they won't make as much on each CD, since they don't own the publishing, for example.

    3) I really doubt Fantasy wants CDs in direct competition with their own. They still sell their own versions of this stuff. If the SACDs are priced the same as the Fantasy discs, what incentive would anyone have to buy the Fantasy discs?

    4) While I'm not saying the new CCR discs will be, MoFi and DCC titles WERE sold at places like Best Buy.
     
  18. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    Thanks for mentioning these factors, Luke. The most important thing to remember about licensed reissues (like thos APO CCR or the MoFi Barber SACDs) is that the licensee has to pay a royalty to the owner/licensor.

    After having read too many posts over at the BSN web site that discusssed such licensing, it is clear that the producer has to choose his reissues wisely. There are also a MINIMUM number of copies involved with that license (and there is probably a maximum too), so it is obvious that such companies as these are compelled to sell at higher prices in order to make the venture profitable. The point here is that APO is obligated to pay their royalty on the basis of the sale of, say, 10,000 copies, but the minimum royalty will apply even if they sell only 1000 copies.

    Since I have a friend in the record business, I can understand why companies like APO and MoFi DON'T want to be involved with mass market distributors who work with the big chains. From what he tells me there are titles he had placed with distributors more than a year ago for which he has not received payment. I think this was part of the original MoFi's problems, too: their distributor went bankrupt taking all MoFi's stock with them.
     
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