Soft Machine; the 2007 remasters.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Capt Fongsby, Feb 27, 2007.

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  1. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    I'm pretty sure that one is no-noised. You should hear how much hiss is missing compared to the Japanese CD issued a few years ago. If you page back in the thread, you'll see some more info about this.

    If you post a sample of the first one minute, I'll do the same from the Japanese disc.
     
  2. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    We're all more than well aware of the sonic shortcoming that is Third.

    Possibly the worst production on a major label that I've ever heard.
     
  3. ChrisM

    ChrisM Reclusive Enabler

    Location:
    SW Ontario, Canada
    Yes, and it's such a shame as it's some of my favorite Soft Machine material. Luckily, I do have an original British CBS pressing of the LP.

    Cheers,
    Chris
     
  4. Capt Fongsby

    Capt Fongsby Music is the best. ... And cats. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norway
    I don't know how to post samples...:sigh:
     
  5. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    Update:

    The 1991 Japanese Soft Machine discs with ESCAxxx catalog numbers are no-noised.

    Severely.
     
  6. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    I was just listening to japanese mini lp of Ian Carr Solar Plexus (UICY-9266 Remaster 2003 24bit), which does sound good. Reading the insert notes there is the Takiguchi name credited for mastering.

    After reading your comment I checked the waveform... (I couldn't believe it would be 100% squashed and brickwalled like in your example, because it really sounded good).

    The waveforms do show a little compression, like Takiguchi was trying to use all the available bandwidth to bring out the mid section without brickwalling the highs and lows. So, it's a careful job (even if far from perfect)... not something you'd expect from one of the worst mastering engineers...

    So, even from where you least expect, something good might just happen :righton:
     
  7. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    I don't agree that Nucleus UICY-9266 sounds good. I'd be careful turning that CD up past about 2, you might kill a cat next door or something.

    I far prefer the WG Line CD for this release.

    As regards Takiguchi, when it comes to heavy limiting on reissues of old albums, he is one of the worst mastering engineers in the world, afaic. In 2003, he was using a lot, but it only got worse. By 2004, it was laughably bad, IMO. The CD you mention is just a bit before he started trying to cause sinus infections through music.

    He is very light-handed with EQ and doesn't seem to use no-noise. In fact, if I didn't know better (and I don't), I'd say there is at least a chance that this guy has gotten Universal Japan to pay him for simply running things through a limiter set to stun.
     
  8. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
  9. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    I'm not too familiar with the Soft Machine catalogue. I only have a reissue Columbia LP of Third. Loooove the music, but the sound...:sigh: Anyway, my local shop has the debut s/t CD on One Way for 6 bucks. Anyone know if this is a decent-sounding version?
     
  10. Dr. Merkwürdigli

    Dr. Merkwürdigli Active Member

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I have the One Way of Volume two. This is the same mastering as the Volume two part of the Big Beat twofer only slightly higher in volume. The Big Beat twofer is generally high prized around here. My guess is that your Volumes One is the same mastering as the Volume One part of the twofer.

    This recording sound kind of hard and compressed to begin with and IMO the CD reflects this but I don’t think they have used any modern days trickery on it.
     
  11. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    I see, thanks. I will go grab it today. :thumbsup:
     
  12. lschwart

    lschwart Senior Member

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    You'll find it a slighly different animal than "Third," but it's a classic on the cusp between the psychedelic and the progressive. "Two" is a better recording and a step toward what many people feel was the band's "mature" sound as exemplified by "Third." There are no really good sounding versions of "Third," by the way, and not just because of mastering issues, either. it's just not a very good recording, although fantastic on a musical level. "Fourth" is the last album of the band's classic era (the last with Robert Wyatt on the kit). That one is musically similar to the instrumental sides of "Third." The compositions are not quite as strong, but the playing is wonderful, and it's a much better recording. The old Columbia two-fer CD (it includes "Fifth" as well) sounds pretty good.

    If you're becoming a fan, it will be worth taking a look at the various live recordings that are available (BBC sessions on Hux, and other well recorded live sets on Cuneiform). The subsequent careers of the main players are all worth exploring--including the later, Jazz-oriented versions of the band itself--but most essential of all are the later recordings of Robert Wyatt.

    L.
     
  13. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    Thanks for that info. A while back I saw the unremastered CD of Third and was almost going to buy it as I figured it had to be better than the LP, but after reading through this thread I am glad I passed on it. I will just stick with my LP. Strangely enough, as poor as that recording is (and noisy vinyl to boot), I still listen to it fairly regularly. I think this is definitely one of the cases where the music is so good that it overshadows the negative aspects of the sound quality. I'll be sure to pick up Two and probably the two-fer of 4 and 5.
     
  14. lschwart

    lschwart Senior Member

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    You're welcome!

    I feel the same way about this record, although I do listen to my copy of the reissue just for the sake of convenience. I bought my LP back in the late '70's after reading a review of the record in the old Rolling Stone Record Guide and fell immediately in love with it. I still like to listen to the old scratchy thing just to stare at the photo in the fold out, which seemed to me an image of exactly the sort of artsy cool I so much wanted for myself at that time (I was 16). Never quite got there--at least not in that way--but the whole thing just seemed like a message from infinite possibility. To me the bassline harmonics on "Slightly All the Time" are still among the most beautiful things I've ever heard--even if they do (maybe because they do) seem to emerge like bright eyes from a swamp of murk.

    L.
     
  15. MOSSTWO

    MOSSTWO New Member

    Location:
    USA
    It's been a long time since I listened to this band...very interesting thread!

    Moss
     
  16. ChrisM

    ChrisM Reclusive Enabler

    Location:
    SW Ontario, Canada
    Unfortunately, even the original orange label UK pressing of the Third LP sounds very murky. It's probably about the best that you'll hear it though.

    Cheers,
    Chris
     

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  17. Paul C.

    Paul C. Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Can I just clarify something? Are the most recent Japanese versions of the Soft Machine albums the same as the Pascal Byrne remasters? ie. not the DSD remasters.

    Is it the case that Sony Japan have dropped the DSD remasters for the Byrne updates?

    Who is credited with doing the DSD versions (if anyone)?
     
  18. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    Yep.

    Yep.

    I don't recall any mastering credit; at least in English.
     
  19. Paul C.

    Paul C. Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Jeff - I am a newcomer to the Soft Machine's music, and obviously have some interesting discoveries ahead.

    I'd like to hear the DSD versions, as the thought that the newest remasters have been no-noised irks me greatly.

    By and large, I have found DSD remasters from Sony Japan to be quite good.
     
  20. apesmu

    apesmu Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kobe, Japan
    hi all,

    i recently downloaded "Third" off of iTunes - it was only $3.99 (pretty cheap), and thought i'd give it a go as i really love the Soft's first album and have never heard this particular album before.

    not sure which mastering they used on iTunes, but the album itself is great!

    i've read a bit through this thread, and it seems that perhaps the best version on CD of this album might be the first Japanese DSD pressing.

    is there an easy way to tell this pressing (i.e., catalogue number, etc.)? as i understand it, the pressings after this one use a newer remaster that employs noise reduction - is that correct?

    :help:

    ...and, a MINT first UK LP pressing would be the best way to hear this album on vinyl, correct?

    thanks all!

    :righton:
     
  21. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member

    The new remaster of One includes the Polydor single, apparently. Though I still haven;t seen a copy myself.

    Any word on SQ yet?
     
  22. Romerovm

    Romerovm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Since this thread is alive again, I'd like to ask a couple of questions regarding the first two albums (my favorites).

    I have the One Way CDs, and I never got the twofer on BGO because the difference was minimal.

    Water and Esoteric have reissued both since then. Which ones sound better? Is it worth to upgrade the One Way CDs to one of these later reissues?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  23. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    I thought the remaster of Third was superior to the old versions?
     
  24. zongo

    zongo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davis, CA
    I can't directly answer your question, but maybe this will help:

    I have the Big Beat twofer and one of the Water reissues. I thought they sounded nearly identical, with the Big Beat slightly better.

    I'm not sure if when you say "BGO twofer" you mean the Big Beat twofer, but I can't remember a BGO twofer, so I'm assuming you intended to reference the Big Beat.
     
  25. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    I think there's a thread somewhere around here which tackled that question (among others) - as often happens here going on for pages and pages and airing many different opinions without ever coming up with one definitive answer.

    Oh yeah, it's this one!
     
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